Listen in as my wife, Kathy Gray, joins me on this heartfelt episode of More Faith, more Life. We’re addressing a topic that carries a significant amount of weight – grief. In the world today, many people are grappling with a sense of loss and pain, making it crucial to learn how to navigate through it. As Kathy shares her personal experiences with grief, we uncover the vital truth that grief, while not part of God’s original plan for us, has become an unfortunate reality of our lives due to the entrance of sin and death into the world.
We continue the conversation by examining the tension between the pain of grief and the hope of healing. Kathy reminds us of the danger of holding on to grief too tightly and allowing it to entrench itself in our souls, threatening our relationships and our outlook on life. However, she also highlights the power of the Holy Spirit as a comforter and the importance of letting go of grief in a healthy manner. We look to the scripture for hope and comfort, and extend an invitation to those who are grieving to seek solace and guidance in Jesus. This is an episode filled with profound insights and heartfelt truths that will undoubtedly touch the hearts of many.
Key Takeaways:
- Grief is caused by a sudden and permanent loss, leading to feelings of anger and disbelief.
- It is important to draw a line between allowing oneself to grieve and not letting grief consume one’s life.
- Regret grief, where individuals grieve not only the loss but also the events that took place before the loss, can be addressed by seeking the help of the Holy Spirit and finding comfort in God’s word.
- Having Jesus in one’s life provides strength and purpose in navigating through grief.
- The Holy Spirit serves as the comforter and can help individuals find healing and move forward.
Where To Dive In:
0:00:01 Introduction to the podcast episode about grief
0:02:49 Kathy’s experience with grief and its effects
0:04:42 Grief is not God’s intention, but a result of sin
0:05:28 Kathy stops using the phrase “good grief”
0:07:11 Holding onto grief can be detrimental to one’s life
0:08:40 Giving oneself permission to grieve, but not cross a line
0:10:43 Destructive grief can destroy relationships and one’s personality
0:11:19 Regret grief and the need for release and forgiveness
0:12:54 The inability to change the past and the need for relief
0:12:54 Grieving and regretting the loss of loved ones
0:13:49 One-sided grief and regret
0:14:23 Learning to let go and find a balance in grieving
0:17:08 Using pain and loss to minister with compassion
0:19:08 The hope of being reunited with loved ones in Jesus
0:20:41 The importance of turning to Jesus in times of grief
0:21:41 The Holy Spirit as a comforter in times of grief
0:22:06 Finding joy and laughter while still grieving
0:23:28 Introducing the e-book “If You Only Knew”
0:23:50 The importance of not being clueless in life
0:24:18 Emphasizing the preventability of destructive outcomes through God
About the host:
Steve Gray is the founding and senior pastor of Revive Church KC. He has been in the full time ministry for over 40 years and was launched into national and international recognition in the late 1990’s as the leader of the historic Smithton Outpouring, and again in 2009 when he lead the Kansas City Revival which was televised nationally on the Daystar television network. Steve is also a veteran musician, songwriter, recording artist and published author. His books include When The Kingdom Comes, Follow The Fire, and My Absurd Religion.
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Transcript:
0:00:01
You don’t want to miss the next podcast from More Faith, More Life. My guest Kathy, my wife Kathy Gray is going to be here and we’re talking about grief and it’s going to really help you in a world that’s hurting.
0:00:10
You were made for more than the status quo. I’m Pastor Steve Gray, and this is the More Faith, More Life Podcast. This podcast is for Christians with an ambitious heart who want to be more for their family, do more with their career, and see more of God’s promises in their life. I’ve spent many years as a worship, artist, minister, nonprofit leader, bold, truth speaker, and most importantly, father and spouse.
0:00:35
When I was in my early forty s, I was craving more. More from God and more from life. I’d done everything I was supposed to do. My life was good, but it wasn’t good enough. So I spent the following years diving into the word of God and searching for the biblical principles that would bring me closer to God and help my purpose and life flourish. That’s what I want to share with you. In every episode, you’ll get practical tools based on real life experiences that you can put into action to redefine your faith and ultimately your life.
0:01:09
So if you’re ready to do more, subscribe to More Faith, More Life and hear an unfiltered biblical truth every week. It’s time to be and experience more.
0:01:22
Hello everyone and welcome to another podcast, more Faith, More Life with my special guest today, my wife Kathy Gray of 48 years. And we are still learning about each other after 48 years and developing in character. But we can say I said to some people, I really think that there’s a special bond that happens after time that you don’t have in short time. That’s why I always tell everybody who ever married Kathy, I always say, stick with it, stick with it. You’ll be so glad that’s right, that you did well today, Kathy. We’re going to talk about something that normally I don’t talk about because it’s just not something I teach on, but I talked to you about it and I felt like there’s a lot of heaviness in our world today and there’s a lot of heaviness on our society.
0:02:11
And so I ask you to come on and talk just a little bit about grief and where to put that in your life, as they might not know, but you’ve had several episodes of loss in the last few years. Well, we’ll just say three losses. Three losses. So you’ve had to deal a lot with grief over a short period of time just in the last few years. And I want you to just share about what you’ve learned, what you feel about it, things that you know about it, and where do you draw the line between having it, not having it, when is it too much, too little, things like that?
0:02:49
Yes. Well, you know, grief is caused by a very sudden, abrupt loss. Something unexpected has been taken from you permanently, never to be returned again. And when that kind of grief happens, you go into unbelief disbelief. Lots of times when grief occurs, it shocks you. Frankly, for me, I became very angry. It’s something that makes you angry because it’s something that’s been taken from you permanently. It will never be returned.
0:03:28
And there’s a void when you lose a person. There is an instant void in your heart, even if you’ve been preparing, even if you know that someone is going to pass away. Or as Paul says in the Bible, to go to sleep, which I prefer to say about us believers, is when someone you love so much and you know it’s coming when they breathe their last, there is something you’re not prepared. You can try to prepare yourself to lose someone that you love, but there is no preparation for grief, because grief is not God’s way.
0:04:09
Yeah. So here we’re going to mix these two together, because grief is not God’s way. God did not create us to grieve. In fact, we know that because when the kingdom of God comes, or when you get to heaven or wherever like that, it says, there’s no sorrow, there’s no tears, there’s obviously no grief. So that was his intention. However, because sin entered the world and death entered the world, and as everybody knows sort of about that, we have things to grieve because we lose things that God never intended us to lose.
0:04:42
And I want you to mention something, because there’s that tension between the two of a phrase that you decided when you found yourself in grief periods, a phrase you decided you didn’t want to use anymore.
0:04:55
Yes, and I found that I realized that it’s really a bad habit among so many people and including me, and that is to say the phrase good grief, like, real, expressive. And then one day, God convicted me of that. They are like opposites of each other. Good is who God is, and God is only good to us, and he has only good to bestow upon people. And grief is the total opposite. Grief is horrible. Grief leaves you in a vacuum.
0:05:28
Grief is an attack on the human soul. And so good and grief have nothing they have nothing in common with each other. So I was convicted, and I said, no more.
0:05:40
And so what you’d say, though, too, grief, though, because we’re in this world and there’s a lot of things that go wrong. Grief is natural yes. To our healing. If we what?
0:05:54
Yes, but we have to handle it correctly, because, Steve, you and I, we’ve been together 48 years, and we’ve seen and we’ve helped people because we’ve ministered side by side for 48 years, and we have seen people who Christians who would not let go of their grief. And when you choose not to let go of your grief, it becomes entrenched into your soul and then it begins to fester and then it covers up.
0:06:25
And as you deny your grief or you blame someone else, you cannot let go of it. It becomes a threat to people’s souls. And sadly, I’ve seen that, I have seen I have seen in whole families, people, whole families that choose to never let go of their grief over a severe loss. But there’s something we have to learn how to do is we have to let go of it. Because if we don’t, it will ruin our lives, it will ruin our relationships, it will ruin how we view life, how we view other people. And we begin to view people with jaded eyes.
0:07:11
And then you know what happens when you don’t let go of it? Then you begin to look for a scapegoat. You become frantic and you’re looking and instead of letting the Holy Spirit help you work through it, suddenly there’s people who have had sincerely a bad loss, but they dealt with it wrong. They dealt with the grief wrong. They began to cherish and feed it and now they are lost from life. They’re like shells.
0:07:43
So you have to learn how to deal with grief. And, you know, I had to learn and I had to walk through it. And I’m thankful because the Bible says the Holy Spirit is the comforter.
0:07:59
Right?
0:07:59
Yeah.
0:08:00
How about this too? I know personally for us well, first of all, let me back up. I think what you’re saying is grief is not natural to us. We weren’t created to be grieving people when all the scriptures and created in God’s image is different than that. But however, we almost need to give ourselves permission, I guess is a good word. We have to have permission given to ourselves and by others to grieve. However, what we’ve practiced in our lives, in every area, not just grief, is I’ve always taught and it’s helped a lot of people, that you have to kind of like draw a line and say, I give myself permission to grieve or even sometimes be afraid, but whatever.
0:08:40
But you say, but I’m not going to cross that line where that line is different for different people.
0:08:47
Well, you know, Steve, you ministered that to me when there would always be a time when we were driving along a certain stretch of highway, along a certain hospital that I had so much pain, just memories from what occurred there and my loss. And oftentimes when we would drive by that I know you would admit, I would burst out. I would burst into tears and anguish and crying out and saying, why I hurt.
0:09:22
They were so innocent. I can’t take this. But then I remember once or twice I began to start casting blame and criticism over other people who to me had never experienced the kind of grief that I was experiencing. And then I would start shouting out accusations and bad things about other people who had grief. But I thought, I’m the only one who’s ever had this much grief. Those people haven’t who did they think they are?
0:09:57
And I remember one time you slowed down the car on the highway, and I thought, uh oh, when he slows down the car, I better behave you or.
0:10:07
If I really, really speed it up.
0:10:10
Yeah. And I don’t know which is scarier for me, but you were, like, almost to hit the brakes, and you said to me, Kathy, you cannot go past that line. Now we draw that line. Stop. You cannot go any further than that. Draw the line and draw the line between understanding I had to grieve, but not go beyond grief, which can really turn into a lot of sin.
0:10:40
And then it’s destructive grief.
0:10:43
Yes, it is.
0:10:44
Or it starts destroying whatever it wants to. Right. Just as we visit with people that maybe they’re not experiencing grief, but they might be experiencing anger, and they feel like they have justified anger, and sometimes you do. You get angry about things like you did, but you have to draw that line. I can’t cross and start destroying other people’s lives or even my emotions or destroying my personality with fear or anger.
0:11:13
You can’t do that.
0:11:14
Now I’m a different person than what God created me.
0:11:17
Exactly.
0:11:18
That’s where that I think, exactly.
0:11:19
Draw that line, because that was not you. I know that was not I had never after three losses, I had never felt such a depth of despair and of a sense of loss and that anger or frustration. And then the Holy Spirit helped me because I thought, make it go away. Make it all go away and take the memories away. And, you know, with a loss of a person you love, you start regretting things that you should have said, that you could have done, that you could have forgiven or released them.
0:12:00
Let’s stop there for a minute, because that is a different kind of grief that is that you get where it’s not just, I have a loss, but now you have regret grief. You’re grieving of the loss, but you’re grieving because of events that took place when they were alive or when they were with you or before the loss. Wow. I mean, that can just get out of control.
0:12:22
It can. And I think for me, at least, and I think for many other people, the grief has to be dealt with, but the regret has to stop first. And you really need the Holy Spirit. You need the word of God, and you need to search your heart, and you understand this. You can’t change it. You can’t change what you didn’t do or how you didn’t love. You can’t change how you neglected that person or that relationship.
0:12:54
You cannot change it. And so therefore, you’ve got to have the Holy Spirit and grant to you a relief and a release from that. And just plain lots of times I think it’s worse for women. It’s like we want to change things and fix things. Well, maybe not. I know you guys want to fix things, but you can’t fix what’s done. You can’t.
0:13:20
And you know, what a wonderful thought to have in this, as if you experience loss, is my belief at least. And everything I can put together is the person that has left or the loss that you’ve experienced. They have no grief, so they’re not looking back, grieving over what you’re grieving. So it’s all one sided. It’s one sided grief. They’re not mad, they’re not upset. None of that’s happening to them. So it’s a one sided regret.
0:13:49
And so there’s just nothing you can do. And if they don’t remember it and they’re not living it and there’s nothing you can do about it, then again, that’s where you draw the line.
0:13:58
That’s right.
0:13:59
I remember that now, where I found myself in that position with you. And one of our granddaughters, she’s wise and sensitive, and she had a talk with me once about that, and she said, now you make sure you let Grandma grieve because I’m like, a perseverance person. And yet I said I am. But where’s that place? And I had to find that. You had to find it.
0:14:23
And I had to.
0:14:24
I had to find it. When do I let it go? And when do I say, I think that’s enough now?
0:14:30
Yeah. And, you know, I’m so thankful that I have you in my life because you’ve been sometimes the Holy Spirit to me, that restraining force with your faith, but your love and your mercy, the.
0:14:44
Holy Spirit through me.
0:14:45
Oh, yeah. You haven’t been the Holy Spirit. He’s not the Holy Spirit.
0:14:50
I know what you mean.
0:14:52
And I think God needs to help Christian husbands understand that their wives need them in these times to allow them to grieve, as our granddaughter said, but then draw that line, point them back to the Word and to the Lord and to just being a sound, stable person. And you were really good at that. But one thing I was going to add regret. You can’t change what you regret. It’s done. Also, you can’t take away that loss.
0:15:27
The loss has occurred. We can never bring our loved one back. We cannot. It is done. They are gone. We cannot change it. So that’s a part of the frustration of working through this. But we have to admit it. We have to admit they’re gone. Now, what do I do about it? And I know I’ve learned this from you, Steve, that as a human being, there’s hurts that happen. There’s deep wounds, there’s events, there’s betrayals, there’s destruction that tries to stop you and harm you or destroy believers. But okay, so that’s done.
0:16:19
You cannot let that rule you. Accept it’s always there, that betrayal. It hurt you. It harmed you. It happened and the loss happened and the people trying to destroy you or rob from you, it happened. So we have to say it happened, but it’s there and it is in us, and I’ve been learning it’s there. All right? And what I’ve learned from you is I heard you say one time, I minister now out of I can minister out of that point of pain, of betrayal.
0:17:07
It has not stopped me from ministering to people and taking care of my family. I minister out of that place with more compassion, with more help, with more courage. So you’ve really helped me in that area.
0:17:24
And I think that’s the victory in it.
0:17:27
That’s the victory.
0:17:28
You take what you experienced, it did happen. We’re not going to say it didn’t. We’re not going to pretend it didn’t at the same time. And even those regrets, take the regrets that we might have not handled everything right with the person we’ve lost, the situation that’s lost. But we can do it right now. We can do it correct with somebody else because certainly there’s other people in the world besides the one we lost because there’s lots of people still that.
0:17:57
We can turn it. Well, you know the Apostle Paul, look how beat up he was, how they beat up his body and everything and know the Jews turned against him and all the persecution and how he’d have to flee to the next city and the opposition against who God had made him and the message that he had. But did that stop Paul from living and caring and loving? Did those bruises and scars on him stop him from moving forward and advancing the message and the Gospel, did it stop him?
0:18:32
No, it didn’t stop him. He just grew in different ways.
0:18:37
That’s right.
0:18:38
He grew in different ways.
0:18:40
In different ways.
0:18:42
And we can, we can grow. We can out of grief, but we grow in different ways. And you’re not going to grow into all of a sudden jumping for joy person. No, that’s not the growth. But the growth pattern is you become a little bit better person, better understanding, better to reach other people and understanding, too, which we do want to add that God does have a great plan for all of us.
0:19:05
Yes, he does.
0:19:06
Because this is not permanent.
0:19:08
Yes.
0:19:08
And so grief is not going to be permanent for anybody because this is just this life. Well, you quoted the scripture to me that if this is all we have, then what?
0:19:19
Yeah, look, it’s from First Thessalonians. Yeah, first little Bible study here for you. First, Thessalonians chapter four, verse 13 says this brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep or to grieve like the rest of men who have no hope. So ignorant about those who fell asleep or fall asleep. And that’s Paul’s way of saying they died. Okay? We don’t want you to be ignorant like the rest of men who have no hope.
0:19:50
We believe that Jesus died and rose again, and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep with Him. So that’s our great hope for our loved ones that we’ve lost, that loved Jesus. When Jesus returns, he’s bringing them with us. With him.
0:20:11
Yeah, we got to be a little stricter about that understanding because people are loose about it. But really, the Bible teaches that you’re only going to be reunited if you are united with Jesus. And I’ve had people hundreds of times tell me when they’ve gone through difficult situations, say, I don’t know how people do it without Jesus. And really, that’s true, because that’s part of the grieving victory is we don’t have to go without Jesus.
0:20:40
Right.
0:20:41
And he, as you have expressed to me before, was a man of sorrow and grief because he knew the world didn’t have to be this way. He knew how hard it was for people and difficult, and all the things that he saw knew, this is not part of my Father’s plan, but yet it was in this world. And so the promise of another life is to those who are united in Him. And really don’t go through this without Jesus, right.
0:21:09
You cannot.
0:21:11
Our country is so influenced by Christianity in so many ways. If you don’t know Jesus or what to do, just go to Christian radio. If you have to go to the Internet and find some preacher and surely they’re going to talk you through and you can connect if you don’t know how, even right this minute or when we get finished with this, just be yourself and say his name and ask for help. And tell him you believe in Him, you have faith in Him, that he’s going to help you.
0:21:41
And ask him to be someone in your life, your savior in your life, and save you from your grief or save you from your fears or save you from the hurt. Maybe there can be grief from divorce even. There can be grief from stupid mistakes or so I think that’s wise when people say, I don’t know how people do this without Jesus. Well, don’t.
0:22:03
Don’t do it without Jesus.
0:22:05
Yeah, you don’t have to.
0:22:06
No. And the Holy Spirit is called the comforter, so he comes alongside. If we believe and we call on Him, the Holy Spirit comes and comforts us so we can comfort others.
0:22:21
Right. And I like it about you and for everybody to just as her example is that she went through these times of grief, but that’s not her total you. That was part of you, and it’s still part of part of me. But you got your personality back. You got your life back. So, yeah, you still grieve. I see it. But you still laugh, too.
0:22:41
Yes, I do.
0:22:42
And you still play with the grandchildren.
0:22:44
Yes.
0:22:44
And you still go to church and you still worship, and so your personality filled out, except there’s a part of it that’s new and that’s a part that grieves but with the Lord, and it’s okay.
0:22:56
That’s right.
0:22:57
Because now that’s a part of you, but it’s not all of you. No, I think that’s a great place where we can put it. Thank you for sharing those things. People need it. It’s a tough world we live in, and there’s a lot of things upsetting and grieving about, but you can get the help. And just such great wisdom to give us permission to grieve, but not to have it take over our lives and to get filled back out again. So you do all of that. You grieve, you laugh, you play, you do things. Well, I want to tell them again, like I did in the last podcast, about this new e-book.
0:23:28
Can they see it? If I hold it up like this? Good. Hold it up there. If you only knew. And it’s available right now. I don’t know how long it’ll be because we’re going to make hard copies. It’s just an e-book now. It’s a guide for the clueless generation. And remember, God’s got a plan for everything in your life except stupidity. Right. The only thing he doesn’t have a plan for is being clueless. The Bible is a book that you’re holding right there.
0:23:50
The Bible is a book to keep you from being clueless. Prayer keeps you clueless. Going to church is to help you not be so clueless. And this book, then if you only knew, a Guide for the Clueless Generation. And you know what? If you go to https://morefaithmorelife.com right now, you can still get it for free. You can still get at no cost to you. It’s only five chapters because I wanted to be short to the point it talks about America, where we are and where we’re going.
0:24:18
But it also lets you know that where we’re going could turn out destructive and bad. But it doesn’t have to be, right. There are some things that appear inevitable, but they’re probably through God preventable. And so you got to get it. It’s free. Why can’t and read it, though, and then send it to somebody else or tell somebody else about it? Will you do that for us, Kathy? Thank you for being on talking about a subject that we don’t talk about much, even you and I don’t really talk about it that much, but you’ve helped a lot of people today, and I appreciate it. All right. Till next time, folks. Bye.
