Have you ever felt a twinge in your spirit when something just didn’t sit right during a sermon? Or observed the lavish lifestyles of certain preachers and wondered, “Where’s the line between God’s blessings and exploitation?” In a journey to the heart of these pressing issues, we wade into the murky waters of religious manipulation and the quest for authenticity in our latest episode. I recount my encounter with a pivotal scripture in Acts 16:16, reflecting on a sermon by Pastor JD that unraveled the critical concept of ‘right message, wrong spirit.’ With raw honesty, I dissect the story of the slave girl with a spirit of divination, drawing parallels to the digital age, where true intentions often hide behind a veil of virtuous messages.
Key Takeaways:
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It’s important to discern if a message, despite being theologically correct, is delivered with the wrong spirit.
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Religious systems often use manipulation instead of propaganda to influence believers.
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While manipulation and propaganda are prevalent in secular and religious contexts, Christians are called to be moved by the Spirit.
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Steve Gray admits manipulation does occur in churches, especially during offerings, but stresses following the Spirit in giving.
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Listeners are encouraged to discern and not be swayed by others’ material success or criticisms of such; instead, focus on being moved by the Holy Spirit.
Where To Dive In:
00:00 Unveiling Hidden Truths in Church Dynamics
03:00 Right Message, Wrong Spirit: Discerning Intentions
05:14 Propaganda, Manipulation, and Advertising in Society
07:49 Addressing Manipulation in Religious Offerings
10:28 Dissecting the Manipulation Tactics of Prosperity Preachers
14:52 Divine Prosperity and the Principles of Tithing
17:14 Manipulation in Churches and Consumer Susceptibility
19:38 Overcoming Manipulation with Spirit-Led Action in Church
About the host:
Steve Gray is the founding and senior pastor of Revive Church KC. He has been in the full time ministry for over 40 years and was launched into national and international recognition in the late 1990’s as the leader of the historic Smithton Outpouring, and again in 2009 when he lead the Kansas City Revival which was televised nationally on the Daystar television network. Steve is also a veteran musician, songwriter, recording artist and published author. His books include When The Kingdom Comes, Follow The Fire, My Absurd Religion, and If You Only Knew.
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Transcript:
0:00:00 You cannot miss the next more faith, more Life podcast. I’m going to tell things and share things I’ve never told anybody before, so don’t miss it. Hello everyone and welcome again to another more faith, more Life podcast. Today I’m going to share with you some things that you probably have never heard before. I’ve never even shared it before, but it’s going to help you understand the church world, the preachers, churches, Internet know, because on the Internet everybody’s bickering back and forth of this, that haters and critics and all that kind of stuff. I’m going to help solve all that for you so you can sort it out in a whole lot of different ways. Okay, so let’s start with the scripture and, well, let me tell you how I got started because this started on Sunday with me and in church and pastor JD, one of our staff pastors, was preaching from acts ch 16, ver. 16.
0:00:51 Let me read it to you and then I’ll tell you. I’m not going to preach what he preached or I’m not going to talk what he talked about, but I’m going to share something really significant that I think I’m just going to open your eyes. I hope it opens your eyes. Once when we were going, this is Paul writing Paul and Silas. Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a female slave who had a spirit by which she predicted the future.
0:01:13 She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune telling. She followed Paul and the rest of us shouting, these men are servants of the Most-high God, right? Who are telling you the way to be saved. Now that is so significant because, and it’s not. Pastor JD went on to preach a great sermon and I want to stop pretty much right there. Cause that is so significant. Cause listen one more time. This is a slave girl.
0:01:41 She had a spirit and she predicted things, but listen to what she’s saying. These men are servants of the Most-high God who are telling you the way to be saved. Now, most of us at that point, whether you’re a pastor or leader or you’re in business and you have coworkers, but if somebody comes along and says, these are the servants, these are the knowledgeable, you know, these are the people that know what’s going on, you need to listen to them.
0:02:07 These are the people that’ll get you rich, these are people that’ll get you free, you know, whatever it is. And in this case it was, these are servants of the Most-high God. Listen to them, they’ll show you the way to get saved. Okay. You know, most of us would say, keep following me. In fact, you go in front of me, just yell that out before I get to town, that the servants of the Most-high God are coming. They’ll show you the way to get saved. And we don’t care where it comes from.
0:02:33 We just want to be promoted. We just want to get it out there. And so that’s what I see a lot of places. And so what I want to call this today is write message, wrong spirit. Okay. Did she have the right message? Absolutely. They were servants of the Most-high God, and they did teach you the way to get saved. So she had the right message, but what? She was of a different spirit. She was of a wrong spirit.
0:03:00 Now, as we learned on Sunday through Pastor JD, that it was more, it wasn’t presented in a way that was a good advertisement in a way, because she was a slave girl and making money for other people. So I think they were encouraging to be, since they couldn’t stop them from preaching at that point. She was being sarcastic, mocking. So let’s put it in the tone of the voice that it probably was because it says here, this irritated Paul. I mean, he didn’t like it.
0:03:31 She followed them, shouting and all that kind of stuff. And she kept this up for many days. And Paul got annoyed. Okay, so we have to pretty well put together. There was something about what she was saying that was annoying, probably the way she was saying it. And then we need to put together that he discerned an knew it wasn’t the right spirit, though. It was the right message. And of course, that’s so prophetic for our day. And for you to understand that, you have to be careful, just like his is. And maybe get a little annoyed too, because he gets annoyed because she’s saying it right, but he discerns she’s of a wrong spirit.
0:04:12 And of course, if it’s a wrong spirit, it won’t produce right fruit, for one thing. But it’s just get annoyed. Like it’s distracting. It’s mockery. But let me say it again. Most of us, if we had a friend or our husband, our wife, our friend, our kids, a pastor or politician, whatever, that’s saying the right message. We don’t care if it’s the wrong spirit, especially if it’s about us, you might have a friend that is. They’re not really of a right spirit, but they’re saying good things to you. They’re saying what you want to hear.
0:04:46 Let’s keep that in mind, because the Bible’s very strong on that, that we have preachers, teachers, churches that will say what we want to hear. Okay? And so when we hear what we want to hear, then most of us are going to go along with we don’t care. We stop at that point discerning what spirit it’s coming from and wonder, are they up to something or not? Cause we like what they’re saying. Now, let’s keep going here.
0:05:14 So the world has their system, and the world system is a system of propaganda. Okay, I’ve said this before, but people all over the world just cannot figure out how Adolf Hitler in the thirties worked up. And even during the war, even when they started losing the war, when Germany started losing the war, the people were still rah rah behind him. All right? And they don’t understand why propaganda. They used leaflets, flyers. They burned and got rid of anything.
0:05:50 Anybody that opposed them, they got rid of. Oh, does that sound like today? Can you think of any people that are trying to get rid of other people who opposed them? Yeah. So they got rid of that. So after a while, all the people knew was the propaganda. All right? And then we have another word, manipulation. Now, the world uses propaganda as far as politics and, and how we’re going to do policies and things like that. We get propaganda, right? From news, from politicians, from leaders, from influencers.
0:06:26 And then they want us to, they’re trying to change our mind or focus us to go with what they believe is right. Okay, so that’s propaganda. But then we have another word that the church uses. The church doesn’t use propaganda because we can’t hardly, barely, because we have a book called the Bible. And so if we use propaganda and then somebody reads in the Bible, they’re going to. That’s not right. That’s not what the Bible says.
0:06:53 So what the church does is the church is religious system across the world, and particularly our country, doesn’t use propaganda. What the church uses is manipulation. Okay? They manipulate us by saying what we want to hear. Right? And so both are going on in your life. Somewhere in between is advertising, right? Hamburger and not food and beer and all that stuff’s being advertised on it. Is it propaganda?
0:07:23 Some, but most of the time. I mean, if they, I heard an ad the other day about a certain product, and then if you listen, you know at the end where they talk real fast and you can’t understand what they’re saying, but if you listen real, real carefully, I listen, and I could hear him say, these are statistics from 1976. I go, what those statistics, that’s a little twist in it, right? A little propaganda and a little bit of manipulation at the same time.
0:07:49 So advertising. So get this. Let’s talk from the church. Christian. That’s the business I’m in, right. And hopefully, you are a churchgoer. You’re a person who believes in God. Hopefully you believe in Jesus. From my vantage point, I hope you do. But let’s talk about that, just a little bit of what’s going on and how manipulation plays a huge role in today’s religious system. And then we’re going to take a moment or two, and I’m going to reveal to you why.
0:08:20 Okay? So, on Sunday, I got up, I was doing the offering time on Sunday, and I just told our church and those listening by streaming, then I know there’s a lot of manipulation in doing offerings around the world in our country. And I told him myself, I hope you never feel like I’ve manipulated you. When I talk about tithing and giving or donating, I’m doing that because I sincerely believe it’s a good thing that will work for you.
0:08:49 I’m only sharing what I’ve seen and heard, which the Bible says we shared what we saw and heard. I’m sharing with you what I’ve seen and heard as a tither, 10% for 45, 46, 47 years, maybe more of being a tither, giving 10% of my income to the kingdom of God. Okay? Now, I did that when I wasn’t in the ministry, all right? I wasn’t in the ministry. I was just a new believer, and I started tithing. So it’s not like I learned later and got in the church and learned. I just started tithing. That’s a lot of money and a lot of giving, right? Giving tithes and offerings, okay?
0:09:26 But when I tell people about it in our church, I don’t want feel. I’m not trying to manipulate. I don’t want to feel I’m manipulating. I trying to get money. I’m trying to say, look, I’m your pastor. I’m your spiritual father. I’m trying to lead this way, and I want you to do well, and I’m only telling you what has worked for me, okay? If you don’t try it, that’s your business. But I’m not trying to manipulate you, as some are now.
0:09:48 All right? Put that together. And then what got me on the subject was, I was checking some news things. I’ll just leave it at that. On the Internet and the different social media places. And on it came tons, lots of criticism of preachers. I think they probably called them prosperity preachers, but of preachers who have made a ton of money, lots of money, okay. With what they preach. And in their criticism of those, they showed the houses they live in and how much the house costs and, you know, how much money some of them are worth and all those kinds of things.
0:10:28 And they did it so we would be critical. So they were manipulating us, obviously, to not like these people. Right? So they’re going to present a picture that causes me to discredit them. Now, I don’t know what difference it makes if you’re not. I guess they’re hoping people will quit giving to em. Cause what’s the motive? If the people who are given to them aren’t listening and the people who aren’t given to them aren’t listening, then you haven’t gotten anywhere. You’re wasted your time. But anyway, so I get it, though. I get it. You.
0:10:56 I get it. When you see the people that you see on tv, and then they tell you they live in a 7 million, 10 million, 15 million, $20 million house, right? And they drive Rolls Royce and Mercedes and all that, you know, I get it. Because here you are struggling when you’re checking out at the grocery store, and then you go on and you go and you hear about that. It’s not that you went and heard them speak or preach. You may not of heard it in context, but they’re presenting it in a way to manipulate you to dislike those people.
0:11:30 All right? So I don’t like to be manipulated, and so I’m going to discern instead of being manipulated. Right? So I want to discern. So I know some of these people. I know some of the people personally that they’re even talking about, but I want to discern them, okay? I don’t want to see a ten second clip of them saying something and then make it say what I want them to say. That’s manipulation. Right. I need to go and get in context. I need to study their ministry. Have they been doing anything good?
0:11:59 One guy came on who? The one preacher came on who has done very well and said he didn’t want to show him his house or his car. He has lots of cars. Because he said a guy came up to him one time and said, well, that’s wrong, that you have all that. You should have given that to the poor. All right, now listen to this. How do you know he’s not just cause he got the house and the car. How do you know he hasn’t been generous all along, and he’s just been blessed with great, a lot of wealth and good things, but he’s also blessed others. You don’t know that.
0:12:37 And they don’t say that. They don’t go and say, well, let’s check and see how much he’s given to the poor since he started in the ministry, how much he’s supported missions, how much he’s helped those in need, how much he’s helped build churches. See, they don’t tell you that part. They just tell you that they’re living in this high life lifestyle. Okay, all right. I get it. And if you’re not, it’s hard to swallow. Okay, so let’s get it. First of all, there’s, yes, we’re being manipulated by people on the Internet trying to get us to not like em, but I get it.
0:13:07 Because a lot of times we’re being manipulated in the church by ministries who know that if they talk about riches and they talk about, well, well, let’s say riches and blessings, riches, materialism, material things, that it will manipulate you. They know it. Some know it. And see, I’m not discerning everybody at the same time, just saying there are manipulators and they know they can manipulate you. There are certain people that churches hire over the last years they hire to come in and manipulate their church for money.
0:13:46 It’s a whole, you know, they come in and preach, but it’s set up ahead of time that these people are going to talk about money. And another side that you might not know is a lot of times the guest speaker has set up a plan that they get 50% of everything that comes in and the pastor gets the other 50%. Now, sometimes the guest will get the manipulator. I call them, we’ll get 50%, and then the church will get 50%. But sometimes it’s the pastor, sometimes it’s the church, and they get together ahead of time. And of course, when both know they’re going to get everything that comes in and you’ve got a couple thousand people out there, then it gets real strong. Manipulation.
0:14:27 And so they know they’re going to, it’s already know it’s manipulation. Let’s just say that they’re going to manipulate you and how are they’re going to do it? They’re going to tell you about all their blessings and all the things that you’re going to get, get, get, get. All right, well, you know what? There’s a little bit of truth in that. Yeah, there’s truth. I mean, you can’t start with Abraham and not say, God came to him and said, I’m going to bless you.
0:14:52 I’m going to bless you and you’re going to be a blessing. But let’s start where it is. Let’s start where it started. I’m going to bless you. We can’t pass that up. When Solomon goes to God, when God says, ask me for something, ask me whatever you want to ask me for. And Solomon asks for wisdom, good choice. But God comes back, then it was God’s decision to say, you know what? Because you asked for wisdom, I’m going to make you the wealthiest man on the earth.
0:15:18 I’m going to make you so rich, you won’t know what. You don’t even know how to know where to put it all. And that happened. That was God’s decision to make him that rich. Solomon didn’t manipulate. He did the right thing. So if there’s people doing the right thing, and this is why you have to discern if they’re doing the right thing and God blessed them, okay. None of my business anyway. You know, they’re not.
0:15:42 So it’s just not my business. It’s between them and God and maybe their organization or something. Okay, so that’s not the point. Because there is a point where God does bless and God does prosper, and God promises, if you’re a tither, and that if you give tithes and offerings in the book of Malachi, preachers know this, that it says, I’ll open the windows of heaven and you’ll have so much that you won’t know what to do with it all. That’s what happened to Solomon.
0:16:09 But God really didn’t just give it to Solomon. He gave it to all of Israel in order in the kingdom to bless the kingdom. And that’s what we have to realize, too, is that when God gave that promise, a tithing and the windows of heaven would open, he not cornering one person, saying, you and you alone, if you’re a tither. And he’s saying, if all of you said, bring all the tithes, everybody be a tither and bring it all into the storehouse, which I interpret is the church where you get fed.
0:16:39 And it’s also the church when. If you get in trouble, that’s the church that’s going to be there to help you. You know those people. All right, so anyway, so, yes, let’s back up. There’s manipulation getting us to dislike people. There’s manipulation in churches. I’ll just admit it to you. There is to manipulate people to give a lot of money. And people have made a lot of money manipulating people. All right, now, three, that’s one. One is what we’re manipulated, dislike or whether it be those preachers, we’re manipulated by the Internet to like and dislike what other people are manipulating us to like and dislike.
0:17:14 It could be whatever. In this case, it was prosperity preachers. Two, there’s some truth to it. God does bless, but there’s some truth that there are manipulators out there that come to churches or in churches and they’re manipulating people. They know what they’re going to do. They’re actually after the money. And so they say things and manipulate, right? Or they, you know, you. A guy gets up and I was in place and he’s talking about his jet and how he got a jet and how he had nothing at this time, now he’s got a jet, he flies all over the country, a world with a jet. And it’s like, u maybe if I give, maybe if I give to this guy, give to the jet guy, maybe, you know, maybe I’ll get a jet or I’ll get a car or I’ll get something. Cause they just got, they got everything. You know, they got houses and they’ll tell how big their house is. And da da da da da.
0:18:01 A lot of manipulation. Okay, but that doesn’t mean everybody’s manipulating. You’ve got to just discern yourself, discern the people. Okay, but there are some out there right now. Three, this is you, this is me, this is us. Manipulation works well, propaganda works, but manipulation works in the church. You know why? Because we are used to being manipulated. We follow manipulation. Advertisement Propaganda, as I said, advertisements, and manipulation promises, false promises, whatever they are, kind of digging into our carnality, manipulating it.
0:18:42 We respond to manipulation. If we did not, then advertising on television or whatever wouldn’t work. Advertising on radio wouldn’t work if we couldn’t be convinced. Manipulated by the facts they give. Come to this place, we’ll give you the best deal. Don’t go to those other guys. You can’t trust them, but you can trust us. Cause we’ll give you the best deal in town. I don’t know if that’s true, but they just manipulated me to go to em. Cause they told me the other guys to cheat me.
0:19:08 They didn’t say that. But I thought that I’m going to get a better deal from you than them. So I’m going to come to you. Okay, now here’s the problem. What is supposed to happen? Christians who believe in the Lord Jesus and are filled with the spirit. You’re supposed to be moved by the spirit. You’re supposed to follow the spirit, right? And so get this. If we were moved by the, if people were moved by the spirit, manipulators will go out of business in the church.
0:19:38 But they don’t. You know why? Because people aren’t moved by the spirit. They’re moved by manipulation. Because they’re used to being manipulated. You are used to being manipulated. You just don’t maybe know it. You’ve got to think about this a minute. Is that true? You think that’s true? Yeah, it’s true. Cause we’re a manipulated society. We’re manipulated by propaganda, but we’re also manipulated just by manipulation. And in the church, we’re manipulated.
0:20:00 And so even altar calls can be manipulation. Is that right? You get somebody so scared they’re going to go to hell that you manipulate them to finally raise their hand or come down front. They’re scared. They’re scared to be a believer, or they’re scared they’re going to be left behind. And so they’re scared. And so we’ve manipulated them to raise their hand, manipulated them out of fear to come down to the front. Then we tell them, oh, God, really moved. Because look how many people got saved. But they were manipulated.
0:20:29 Okay, but we can blame the manipulators, but we have to also blame ourselves because we don’t do things by the spirit. We do by things by being manipulated. Manipulators know that. And if you’re go going to start a ministry and you say, well, okay, I want to start a ministry, do great things for God. Nobody’s giving, nobody’s following, nobody cares. Well, if I manipulate a little bit here, I’ll get the money.
0:20:54 If I get the money, I can do stuff for God. If I don’t get the money, I can’t do stuff for God. I’m just sitting at home. Well, better to manipulate and do something for God than to do nothing for God. You see how it happens? The key to it is this. You don’t need to be manipulated. You don’t need to have propaganda. You’re going to follow the spirit. You’re going to follow the word. You’re going to discern the hearts of people, but you’re going to be moved by the spirit. Now, the spirit’s pretty generous.
0:21:17 Get ready. Cause God said to Abraham, I’ll make you a blessing, but let’s knock this thing out where it’s not the right message. See, the message isn’t necessarily wrong. It’s the right message. It’s the wrong spirit. But if you get a right spirit, that’s the key, not them. Don’t t worry about them getting the right spirit. You get the right spirit so you don’t have to be manipulated to do the right thing. Show up and work.
0:21:41 Love other people, work in the children’s ministry. Donate to God, give donation, tithe to the Lord. All the things and the Spirit’s just. Talking to you to do good things all the time. Right? It’s in us. We have to get to the point. I don’t need to be manipulated because I am m moved by the power of the Holy Spirit. I obey the spirit of God. Got it. Powerful. I’m thinking I might even preach that coming up next week or so.
0:22:08 So powerful. So I hope you do it now. I don’t want to manipulate you. This. You need to get that book. If you only knew. Guide to the clueless generation. No manipulation. You just need to get it. You need to know what’s going on in America today and what we can do to stop this progression of destruction. It might happen, it might not happen. It depends on what the church does and what believers do to turn this thing around and get the blessings of God and turn us into a blessing. Well, I hope that helped you today. Exciting. Never told anybody that in my whole life. You’re the first to hear it. How about that? Till next time. Bye.