The Unspoken Church: Community, Debt, and Faith

0:00:00                  Are you part of a tribe or a community? Oh, that’s all good. But I’m going to tell you a secret today on today’s podcast, the secret of what a church should be doing besides giving you good friends, you were.

0:00:12                  Made for more than the status quo. I’m Pastor Steve Gray, and this is the More Faith, More Life Podcast. This podcast is for Christians with an ambitious heart who want to be more for their family, do more with their career, and see more of God’s promises in their life. I’ve spent many years as a worship, artist, minister, nonprofit leader, bold, truth speaker, and most importantly, father and spouse.

0:00:37                  When I was in my early forty s, I was craving more. More from God and more from life. I’d done everything I was supposed to do. My life was good, but it wasn’t good enough. So I spent the following years diving into the word of God and searching for the biblical principles that would bring me closer to God and help my purpose and life flourish. That’s what I want to share with you. In every episode you’ll get practical tools based on real life experiences that you can put into action to redefine your faith and ultimately your life.

0:01:11                  So if you’re ready to do more, subscribe to More Faith, More Life and hear an unfiltered biblical truth every week, it’s time to be and experience more.

0:01:24                  Hello everyone and welcome to another More Faith, More Life podcast. So glad we could be together talking about different subjects that are important to you that you’re not going to hear everywhere, especially if you lean towards some religious broadcasters and you listen to different teachings and things like that. You’re going to hear stuff here on here on More Faith, More Life that you don’t hear everywhere else. In fact, to be transparent about it over the years become one of my trademarks. I was talking to a book publisher the other day and I said, I’m hoping this book working on a couple of books. And I said, I hope this book doesn’t sound like everybody else or just this way or that way. And he stopped me. He’d read other books, he said no, there is no way, no way that you are going to sound like everybody else. You’ve always had a way of saying things that you’re not going to get anyplace else. And so that was encouraging and I want to encourage you that direction too.

0:02:19                  And keep that in mind too on our website morefaithmorelife.com you can even consider a donation. I’m not a big money raiser as you can tell. We hardly ever mentioned never hardly on any maybe once. But I’m not a big money raiser. I don’t talk about money. Even been in church services where I’m the speaker or I’m supposed to collect and do the offering time and I get so busy thinking about my sermon I forgot totally to do an offering and I’ll be done. I’m ready to leave the podium and go sit down.

0:02:52                  Like, then you didn’t do an offering. And of course, they mean that positively because they want to keep the church going and do all the things the church does. But I just forget. So I just want to do that up front. You’re going to get things here that if you do this on a regular basis, which I hope you will, and you’ll tell your friends to, you’re going to get things about life, you’re going to get things about religion, both those two things.

0:03:15                  Faith, life, religion, church. Oftentimes I tend to tell secrets, company secrets, religious secrets that nobody else talks about. And so, you’ll know, to where I can talk to you about money and how the religious system is run. Just like every other system, it’s run by money and power, people wanting power, people wanting money. And so you’ll learn that, and I’ll tell you about it. I’m not afraid to talk about it, but I do want to mention that because of that, you want to pick carefully who you listen to.

0:03:54                  Like I said, particularly if you’re in the religious camp, you’re a churchgoer. You’re open to God, you’re open to teaching. You want to learn new things. But you need to be really careful today who you listen to and understand that just like in Jesus’day, he said, be careful of the yeast of the pharisees, because it’s hypocritical. It’s hypocrisy. They’re not who they say they are. They love money.

0:04:17                  They love the best seats in the house and the restaurants or whatever, and they love to be seen. They like to be in front of people and a lot of people in the ministry, that’s who they are. They’re extroverts that like to be in front of people and like to be the center of attention. And that’s going to change their sermon. It’s going to change their teaching. Another thing I can tell you about that, too, is churches are in debt, big debt. And what they do is you want to know a secret, so here you go. So you have, let’s say, a pastor my age, and they want to build a new church, right?

0:04:53                  And they want to spend easily, $20 million easily for the new sanctuary and all the education and the kids play place and all that stuff. Let’s just say 20 million. Well, if you’re around my age, you’re from 50 up to this, and you go and you get a loan for $20 million for a 30 year note, well, you better hope you live to be 100 and still be paying for it. But that’s not going to be the case, is it?

0:05:28                  What’s going to happen is they get these 30 year notes, then they get to have the building, they get to be the pastor of the new church, exciting new church building. And, oh, you’re the pastor of the new beautiful oh, the building is so beautiful. But that guy or that gal, they’re not going to be around to pay for it. They’re going to retire, they’re going to get old, they’re going to die. And guess who’s going to pay for it? Their children and grandchildren or people that don’t even go to the church now. They’ll come in later, years later, and other people pay for it. But you get to drive around the parking lot if you’re the pastor, senior, you get to drive around the parking lot and go, look at, this is my church and oh, you’re the pastor of that new church.

0:06:15                  Yeah, this is my building. I built this church. Yeah, but you’re not going to pay for it, so I could go do that. I’d love to have a new building, but I love my children too much and I love my grandchildren too much to get a 30 year note on $20 million, and which is low, really, it’s easily 30 million. But we’ll just say 20, and then I’m going to drive around and everybody’s going to know me as the senior pastor of that new, beautiful church building.

0:06:42                  Oh, you did such a yes, I did such a good job. But I’m not going to pay for it, am I? Other people are going to pay for it, and I get to be the pastor of the new church until I retire, get old, die, whatever. If you’re 60 years old and it’s a 30 year note, are you going to pastor till you’re 90? Guess so. I guess you could, couldn’t you’re? Most don’t if you’re a little older, if you’re 65 years old, then you’re going to have to pastor till you’re 95 to pay that thing off.

0:07:13                  Okay. So anyway, you get the point that happens all the time. And so then they get to be the big shot in the community with the brand new building that they’re not going to have to pay for somebody else’s. You didn’t know that, did you? Happens all the time. Yeah. So that’s why it’s important to listen to the right people, the people that shoot straight with you. And then if you are going to give your money, give it to those that are telling the truth, that are revealing things, that are going to help you move along and see things, hear things, and know things that you don’t hear all the time.

0:07:49                  Yesterday, we had a printed brochure type thing, and they were showing it to me at the office, church office. They were showing it to me, and it looks really nice, and they’re real proud of it and all that. And I’m not going to say what it is, but on the front of it, it had this phrase, and they couldn’t understand why I didn’t like the phrase. I said, because thousands and thousands and thousands of churches all use that same cozy phrase.

0:08:18                  And they said, well, that’s why we should use it, because then people, they’ll try this and that and this and that church. And they’ll come and they’ll see it. And I said, that’s not really me, though. What I want to do is have something that separates us, that they hear our phrase and they realize, oh, maybe there’s something new, something different, something unique, whatever fresh. But it’s too late. It’s already printed. And they said, I approved it.

0:08:46                  I did approve the brochure at one time before it was printed, but I still turned up my nose at the phrase. But the reason is because you need to know something. Okay? Today is very popular to even hear a word that I never heard when I was a kid in this fashion, and that is today you’ll hear the word tribe. We’re making a tribe. Are you part of a tribe? Okay. And just to show my age a little bit, and maybe yours too, that was always native Americans belong to a tribe.

0:09:23                  But I never used the word about my family or friends or anything. But it’s used now, right? You’re part of a tribe. And then on top of that, then a word that we hear all the time, especially in the church world, is the word community. Community. And how much people need community, how much they need to have a tribe. They need to have the feeling that they’re a part of something. And it goes on and on and on.

0:09:47                  Well, the reason it’s important is because it shows the symptoms of who we are, how we feel, how we feel about ourselves. We’re an insecure. We need to constantly have affirmation. And I say we. I’m not even talking about myself. I’m just generalizing throwing myself in the general population and of church people, non church people, it’s about the same. And that’s we need constant as a whole affirmation that we’re loved.

0:10:15                  You ever noticed that? Maybe you felt that way? No matter how many times somebody says I love you, it doesn’t work. It’s not enough. You always need another one. You always need to hear it again. You always need another person. It’s not enough. We’re insecure. We need a lot of affirmation. I didn’t grow up with any affirmation, just personally, my personal life and the way things happened. I didn’t get any affirmation. I pretty much just went and did what I needed to do.

0:10:48                  I didn’t have a dad. I didn’t have money. I didn’t have help. Nobody helped me, and I was alone. I guess this is the changing of the generations. At least when I grew up, it never even crossed my mind that somebody should help me, that there’s somebody out there that I need to go be part of a tribe or a community or anything. It never even crossed my mind. You just go do what you got to do. You work hard and do what you got to do and make it work for you.

0:11:17                  That’s what I learned to be and do. So nowadays, though, it’s different. There’s a whole generation that they just say at least they’re seeking community. They’re hurting, they’re needing relationships, they need friends and they need a tribe. And I’m accepting it. I’m not saying it’s wrong. I’m saying that’s who we have become. And so the reason I’m bringing that up, I work in the church world. I work in religion.

0:11:46                  It’s what I’ve done with my life. And I’ve learned a lot of things that not all churches are created equal, okay? But almost all churches will equally use the word community. Now, here’s what I want you to learn today so you can take a pledge and say, I’ll never forget this for the rest of my life, I’m going to remember this, okay? So you have to be knowing that churches do fill that place of community, right?

0:12:20                  But listen, here it is. Raise your right hand so I’ll never forget this, okay? Because you don’t go find a church, join a church, or become part of a church for the sake of community. God never created a church for community, all right? Now you can find community there. I hope you do. We have it at our church. We have community, friends, relationships, people do stuff together, home groups. We have all that. We have community, right?

0:12:53                  But when I drive onto that parking lot or I drive by another church and see their building and their parking lot, I realize we’re different. We’re different. I’m different, and our church is different, and I want it to be different, okay? I drove by a church yesterday, a day before. I remember driving by it. I know the people, nice building some miles away from us, but I know who they are. They’re nice people. They’re really trying to do a good job and they advertise good stuff about community and come find community.

0:13:25                  And people are searching for that. That’s good, but that’s not why you find a church, okay? And so when I went by, I saw their banner. They had some banners out and stuff, and I thought, okay, that’s good. But I realized that they’re tapping into the need for community to build a church congregation. So they’re knowing the need. People need community, and they’re using the need for community to build their church and congregation and grow.

0:13:56                  And you say, what’s wrong with that? Nothing, sort of. Sort of nothing. Because we need community. But okay, it’s taking advantage of people’s weaknesses, okay? It’s taking home groups, community groups, all that tribe, all that stuff. Churches need to do that, but they need to do first and foremost why God created the thing called church, why Jesus has a church, all right? So a church is a great place to have community, but it’s supposed to be a place where you connect with God, not with people.

0:14:38                  Did you hear me? You got to remember that your whole life because you’re going to find thousands and thousands of churches that are almost all the same, okay? And they’re the same because they’re doing the same thing. They’re building your need or our need or the nation’s need, whatever generations need, whatever they’re building and using community to tap into the hurts, the fears, the loneliness, the needs, okay?

0:15:07                  Is that wrong or right? You can decide for yourself because people do have that need, okay? But you fulfill the need that they’re trying to fulfill, not by tapping in to those hurts or those fears, but by allowing them, teaching them how to tap in to the Spirit of God, the presence of God, how to connect with God. Because if you get a good connection to God, you’re not going to have those feelings.

0:15:36                  Fearful, insecurity. Somebody tell me I’m good. Somebody tell me I’m worthwhile. Somebody let me know that I’m loved all those things that are going through the loneliness that’s in our world today. Our nation is real. Real. But we’re going about it wrong. So if we go to the thousands and thousands and thousands of churches that are using community to try to reach people, it’s wrong because that’s not what a church is. You use the spirit of God and let them connect with God.

0:16:12                  Then after that, can we have community? Absolutely. We have a community of people that have the same desire to stay connected to each other because we’re all connected to God. And that’s our goal. We want to have God in our life. We want to have God in our life. We want to have a relationship with the creator of the universe, right? We want that. And so because we want that, that builds a community automatically for us.

0:16:37                  But it’s the right reason. So I drove by a church and it’s a good church, a church is, but this particular one I know about and it’s good. And they say everything right and like that, but the root of it is you’re going to go there and you’re going to meet people, but you’re not necessarily going to meet God. And they’re going to tell you that God’s there. They’re going to tell you God’s there. They’re going to tell you the phrases like God’s in the house and things like that. But let’s be realistic about it, okay? So you got a building, you got several hundred people in there, you got great music, talented people, a great speaker and all that kind of stuff, all right? And then you get up and you sing a great song and then God’s in the house, god’s here among us or the Spirit of the Lord is here, whatever.

0:17:26                  Okay? Sounds good, doesn’t it? But here’s the problem. Are you going to really sell the idea to yourself even that the creator of the universe is in attendance in that building and there’s no sign of him in attendance anywhere? Great music, great people, great friends, maybe great food, great coffee, whatever. Great, Donuts. Everything’s great. Great children’s. We got a great children’s program, you’ll hear? Okay, great. That’s good.

0:17:57                  But does God really attend? Because if God attends, shouldn’t there be some evidence that God attends your church or that church or whatever? And what we have now today is we have evidence of community, great children’s ministries, probably better than we’ve ever had. We’ve got better music in churches than we’ve ever had, great musicians, great songwriters, great speakers, great orators. But then you go, and when you leave, you leave inspired to keep going, make friends, go to a home group, go to your fellowship, go to your tribe, enjoy the community, right?

0:18:39                  But you can go away and never really connect with God. If you really connect with God, it’s going to change your life. I tell people, 1 second in the presence of the living God, just a split second can change you forever or change your outlook. The world may not change, but it looks different, and you’re enjoying it more, and you’re involved in it more. So it happened to a guy named Saul in the Bible who was actually a pretty rotten guy.

0:19:14                  He persecuted Christians, threw him into prison. He actually approved of him being killed. He didn’t actually put his hands on him and kill him, but he set it up and approved of their deaths in prison and roundtown. This is the guy, and he’s walking on his way to throw some Christians in prison on a particular road. And God comes to him, flash of light. It’s so bright, it blinds him for a while, and down he goes, and he hears a voice.

0:19:45                  And all this is he tells the story because he changes his name to Paul. If you don’t know who Saul is, he changes his name to Paul because he’s different. Anyway, he tells it three times in the Bible what happened to him, and it takes longer to read it’s, the little passage, than it does how fast it happened, because, you know, bang. And he said, who are you, Lord? He said, I’m Jesus, who you’re persecuting, and I’ll tell you what to do, and it’s done.

0:20:14                  How fast did that happen? Bang. And it changed him forever. And so what, you’re you I’m saying you, okay? I’m talking like you’re with me on this, but you them, they us, whatever. Okay? What people are looking for is that now they may not see a flash of light and be knocked to the ground or anything not that dramatic, but the results of it is a God connection is what our culture is needing. And what we’re doing is we’re substituting it as church. Thousands and thousands and thousands of churches are substituting the community with God, for the community, with people, and trying to make us feel better.

0:20:57                  Problem people are not feeling better. They go, they feel better a little bit while they’re there. It’s inspirational. It’s going to be okay, keep trying, keep going. But, you know, the kingdom of God with God is not just trying to do better. This is not about you trying to do better. You will do better, but it’s not you trying to do better. It’s about things, God things happening that change you. So you’re not trying to do better. You are better.

0:21:25                  You feel better, you look at the world better, and the list goes on. So pick a church out there. I can probably almost tell you exactly what it’s going to be. It’s going to have a great emphasis on community, like I said, and getting together and in church and outside of church. But the church service itself is very streamlined. You’re going to go, they’re going to do a wonderful opening, maybe a video showing how great the church is.

0:21:57                  Little opening. They’re going to do 20 minutes maybe, of maybe fantastic music, 20 minutes, but then they’ll stop it, and then they’ll have announcements or offering or whatever, and you’ll have sermonette, I call it, and it’s done in an hour, about an hour, and you’re done, and that’s it. And so you pick a church. I really like that church. I really like that building. Maybe we talked about buildings. I really like that building. I like that church. I like those people. I like that pastor.

0:22:32                  Wonderful, good. That’s not why you go, though. You don’t go because you like the pastor or you like the music. It’s all good. I hope it’s good. Or you like the people or you like the coffee and donuts or whatever. Or you like the children’s ministry. Oh, my kids love it. Okay, but are they, you, any of us, walking away with life changing God connections? And that’s what I drove by that church and I thought, you got so many great things going on there.

0:23:03                  But I’m empty about when I think about what they’re doing, it empties me of it. I don’t feel full. I feel empty. Because I think when I go onto our parking lot, I want God connection. I want God to attend my church, our church, and I want him to have some visibility, right, have some manifestations that God really is there. If I say God’s in the house, something’s got to change. If we say the creator of the universe attends our church, shouldn’t there be some creation of God, some recreation?

0:23:42                  Shouldn’t there be something bigger than friendship, community, a good speaker, good music, good fellowship, good food, good children’s ministry. Our kids are happy, good nursery, whatever, those are all good. They got a beautiful parking lot, and they’re friendly and all the good things that it’s there that are important because I want to have a friendly church, too. And I’d love to have one of those buildings, by the way, if you’re so moved to buy us one.

0:24:12                  But that’s not what’s important to me. I personally go to church because church is the place where common people meet an uncommon God and connect through the power of the Holy Spirit to the creator of the universe, right? And come away changing if you don’t change instantly, but it’s transforming, says by the renewing of your mind, you’ll be transformed, that God begins to change the way you think about things, and it changes and transforms you and the world. Like I said, it might get better. It might get worse.

0:24:49                  Things might not always go your way, but everything’s different because you’re different. The world looks different because your eyes and ears, mouth, heart have been changed and transformed, and things are different now about you, and you’re better for it, and other people will notice. Your relationships will get better. You become a better mom, better dad, better person, better worker. Everything gets better because you change the way you think, because you’re not like everybody else.

0:25:18                  That’s just desperate, hurting and desperate and lonely. And they got to go on the Internet, and they got to go on Facebook. They got to go on Twitter or some social media, and they’ve got to tell their feelings, and then they got to meet with a friend so they can talk about their feelings. And then maybe they’ll get prayer at church, but what are they praying about? Their feelings. And so that’s my speech for today.

0:25:45                  Out of just love and compassion for people is not all churches are created equal. Most of them are the same. So that little phrase that was on our thing was okay. Our little brochure thing was okay, but it threw us in with everybody else that’s just going through the religious motions, but they’re actually building a congregation based on people relationships and not God relationships. So that’s my speech for today.

0:26:14                  I want you to find a church that you come away and say, you know what? There’s something of God in this place. And not just you felt it, like they sang Amazing Grace or Jesus Loves Me, and you go, oh, I felt that. Or if it’s Christmas, it’s Silent Night, right? And oh, I felt something. Okay, but look around at the people. Is everybody getting a God thing? This is a god place. And I’ll get it because I know these are ordinary people.

0:26:46                  They’re getting something. I can tell it’s something here in the room, a God thing, but it’s in the people. A God thing is in the people. It’s not just they’re nice people. It’s not just community. It’s not we just go to their house and have a meal and talk and, oh, it’s so good to have great friends. And then we go play volleyball or pickleball or whatever, right? Zion, my host is here. My producer host is here with me.

0:27:11                  He played pickleball yesterday, I think, or the day before or sometime oh, no, you golfed yesterday. I don’t know what you did, but anyway and so you go do with your friends and it was with church and okay, that’s great, but I don’t want Zion to come to church to go meet friends. He’s married now, but maybe came looking for girls one time or girls looking for guys or know. I want you to come to my church, support it. You can get it online.

0:27:42                  Revive Church. KC, isn’t it? Is it revive KC. Church. But anyway, it’s KC, Kansas City. Make sure you get to the right. There’s other churches in the world called Revive. Revive KC. You can get on YouTube. You can get know on our app. There’s an app for Revive Church anyway. And if you live someplace else, you can watch it and see the difference and feel the difference. Okay? And that’s what we want for you.

0:28:09                  And through this broadcast, listen to all of them. I’ll be honest with you, I’m going to talk next time. I’m going to talk about what was one of the biggest life changing obstacles that I was afraid to admit. And I’m going to tell you about that and help you get over some of your humps and some of the things you need to do. But just today, just an honest talk about churches. Find one. Doesn’t have to be ours, obviously, especially if you don’t live in Kansas City. But if you do, consider one where you say, friends are great, community is great, I’m friends with the pastor, all that stuff is great.

0:28:47                  But those are the things the Bible says sometimes you have to leave those things behind, right? Sometimes you have to leave those because Jesus said that about his own. He says, these are my mother and brothers, those that hear the word of God and do it. Oh, well, that’s different then. You just can’t have just everybody in your friends and your tribe. Okay, that’s my speech today. I’m so glad you just let me share, go to morefaithmorelife.com.

0:29:16                  I haven’t looked at it for a while, but I think you can make a donation and just keep this thing going, keep it going, show your support and anything else you see there. There’s products and things we can talk about at another time. Go to morefaithmorelife.com, learn more, and become a listener all the time to this podcast and and I think it’s going to change your life because you’re going to hear things like we talked about today, that you may not hear anyplace else. Thanks for listening today. Till next time.

0:29:43                  Bye bye.