Revival, Repentance, and Leadership

You were made for more than the status quo. I’m Pastor Steve Gray, and this is the More Faith, More Life Podcast. This podcast is for Christians with an ambitious heart who want to be more for their family, do more with their career, and see more of God’s promises in their life. I’ve spent many years as a worship, artist, minister, nonprofit leader, bold, truth speaker, and most importantly, father and spouse.

When I was in my early forty s, I was craving more. More from God and more from life. I’d done everything I was supposed to do. My life was good, but it wasn’t good enough. So I spent the following years diving into the Word of God and searching for the biblical principles that would bring me closer to God and help my purpose and life flourish. That’s what I want to share with you. In every episode you’ll get practical tools based on real life experiences that you can put into action to redefine your faith and ultimately your life.

So if you’re ready to do more, subscribe to More Faith, More Life and hear an unfiltered biblical truth every week. It’s time to be and experience more.

Hello again and welcome to another More Faith, More Life podcast. We’re so glad you’re with us. I’ve got my wife Kathy with us today because I want her to join me as we also join our special guest Catherine Mullins. And we had a great time on the last podcast and we sort of got the story from her childhood when she began to sing on first time in third grade and lessons to children so you want to get that and then lessons to girls as she talked about that. And now we want to bring it up to where we are now. And one of the things that Zion, our producer and helps us and all that brought up that we have people that are entrepreneurs, they work in their own businesses and things like that. So how did you handle finances starting mean?

I don’t even know how you handle finances at a church because when you come to our church we just give you money. We don’t like say the offering goes, we just decide what we’re going to give, I guess. But I know other churches, you get the offering and they take a love offering for you. How was that either starting out or how’s that been or just anything you want to say about somebody to start out, you got to have money if you’re going to do it full time.

That’s a great question. And so for me, again, I was blessed enough that I was able, because the Lord used the lakeland outpouring as my launch, that I basically went in full time and was able to start taking love offerings pretty immediately and that became a full time position pretty quickly. One of my friends though says that when you’re pursuing God’s plan for your life, financially. Obviously there’s a level of faith that you need to step out on, but sometimes it’s God’s plan with different people that you might still have to work your job for a little while and it’s okay to steward that. And my friend says, let your dreams be the caffeine that keeps you up at night.

And sometimes there are seasons where we trust the Lord, but maybe his plan and strategy is still to work a job for a while before all the finances come in. But for me, I kind of felt it out and definitely my Honorarians and love offerings have steadily grown over the years. So I make obviously more now than I did then. And so we approached it initially as a love offering. That was what we felt like from the Lord to do and it was expenses covered love offering. And then I think there’s a reality of where supply meets demand.

And so if you feel from the Lord to charge a price, you’ve got to know what people are willing to say yes to. And usually after a while, if you get a lot of no’s at this price point, then that means you probably need to bring it down. And so I think fundamentally, you have to hear from the Lord of do you feel called to just take love offerings and have expenses covered or do you feel called to go the honorarium route?

We do both depending on the situation. So for you guys, you guys are family, we’ll do whatever we’ll come for free, whatever you guys want. You guys are so kind and you steward us so well and our relationship so well. And then other places, if we don’t know them as much, we might feel from the Lord if we’re bringing abandon and stuff, that we’ll ask for a certain amount and whatnot. So I think, again, people have to hear from the Lord but have realistic expectations that this is a journey and so you’re probably not going to be making necessarily what you want at the very beginning. And so get ready to press into that and do whatever you need also to steward your life financially, if that makes sense.

Yeah. I remember traveling and when we traveled as part of our traveling ministry, but after the revival broke out in Smithden in my name and I was in magazines and all over TV, then obviously the money went up. So I’d go to a church and they’d say, we’ll take a love offering for you and we’re going to give you the love offering. But then so much money would come in because so many people that was the biggest offering they probably ever seen. And I noticed a little while that it was a little tough on them giving me the whole thing.

One place I went in Japan was really tough on, remember that? And they said they were going to give us the whole love offering and so much money came in. They grabbed me once, and the pastor and his brother, who was maybe on the board or something, got me, and I sat in the backseat of the car while they turned toward me and started negotiating. And, you know, we know we said this, but we didn’t expect that. And it was really tough on him. I just said, Listen, you do whatever you want to do. If it were me, I’d keep my word.

But I think they did. He a lot of money. But anyway, so there you go. But you take what you can get to get started. Sing where you can sing, preach where you can preach, take whatever you can get and get going, right?

Yeah. Use your faith. I remember in our early music ministry traveling days that, well, there were ten of us, so it was the whole family. Imagine traveling with your mother in law even, and ministering. So it was a great thing. But I remember the excitement of the faith that we would have, and we knew we were called to serve Jesus and to go touch all these churches and change lives. And there was an excitement of faith and also the fear of the Lord. I remember we would have the fear of the Lord, like, Lord, we’re staying close to you. We’re not going to do anything stupid. We’re not going to have a fight on the bus.

We’re going to go in and submit to the local pastor because we respect you so much, Lord, the calling. We respect and cherish that calling. And we decided we’re going to do everything we can to protect that, to move that forward. And I know you have that attitude, the times when you’ve come to our church and ministered to us and to our whole church and our women, can you share with me and with us that attitude that you’ve brought in, that I think you have an attitude that not everyone has?

Catherine well, I think one yeah. When it comes to finances, exactly what you said to faith thing. We trust the Lord with our finances, and my husband will say it, I’ll say it. The Lord is the one who pays the bills. He’s the one that takes care of us ultimately. And so we’re not concerned about overarchingly if churches pay us enough or don’t pay. The Lord is the one who fits the bills. And that’s such a peaceful thing. And it doesn’t even matter if you work at a corporate company.

We still need to have this mentality that our money comes from him and he’s the one who takes care of us. And I think we’re in an issue right now culturally, where this is maybe not the heart, but it needs to be the heart. Exactly what you said. We’re coming in to serve the pastor, we’re coming in to serve the vision of the church. So I’m not coming to churches to just spout my own vision and my own plan. I’m here to get in the trenches with the pastors and say, what are you fighting for and what culturally are you wanting to create in that sense? And we’re here to serve that and propel that forward.

And it is a thing of humility and it’s a thing of saying, okay, this is not about me. This is not even about the songs that I sing. It’s coming alongside of what God wants to do in this region and running with that and pushing that forward as best we can. It is a posture of humility. It’s just what Jesus said. He didn’t come to be served. He came to serve and give his life as a ransom for many.

Now you’re entering into a new adventure that we told you we were going to mention that you and your husband are going to be taking over lead I guess you’ll be the senior because you are the pastors, the lead pastor at your parents church. You’ve been preparing for that and you have another year, I think, of what our friend Frank told us another year about or whatever. So what’s about that? What that’s going to be like? And by the way, Kathy reminded me earlier today of when you were here one time, I don’t know which time, and you spoke and ministered and preached or whatever and how good it was. So I know you have a lot inside of you. What’s the dynamics with that and when you start, who’s going to do what, when, what’s going to happen to your parents, all that. I just have all those questions.

Yeah, so I think it’s interesting. I mean, David and I, my husband, we are so thrilled about this next season. If there’s anything that we’re fired up about, obviously we’re so thankful for Road Ministry and to some degree we plan to continue that and we’re working through that as well. But we are on fire for the local church. And a lot of people don’t know my husband, but he is a dynamic speaker, but he’s got the heart of a pastor.

And I mean, he just did a message last week that just had all of us just undone about perseverance and suffering and the faith journey. That was just what our church needed to hear. So I’m so excited to see him step into his call. And it’s been interesting because I’ve been seeing this all over the nation just with where people are at. Leaders, senior leaders are at in their age that there’s really a large amount of transitioning happening in the body of Christ.

And so we have a good amount of friends who are either they’re going to be taking over their dad’s church or their parents church, whatever it is the son in law is. And so that’s been fun that we’ve kind of been on this almost national journey with some of our friends and we all text each other, what are you doing with this and what are you doing with that? But I think the big thing is with the transition, my dad, he’s not a hugely hands on person in the sense of he’s not territorial, which some pastors, they tend to be that, which is not a bad thing.

So he’s backed away with some different things like that. But he’s been so gracious and supportive in the transition. We’ve been very clear we set it as a couple of year period because we just wanted to give our congregation time to settle in with this. I think the hardest part of transition is not the administrative side, it’s the emotional side. And it’s the emotional connection that my dad has with his congregation and it’s also the emotional connection that my dad has to them on both sides.

So I think people have been very gracious, but it feels like there’s momentum building again. My dad’s been very supportive and he definitely is still going to have a place in the church when he retires. He’s still going to be preaching some, counseling some, and he’s excited about that new season. He’s really kind of been stepping into some apostolic things and just raising up leaders and that’s kind of been his focus. And we’ve kind of taken over the administrative side of church in a lot of capacities and he’s really just pouring as much as he can into leaders and David’s preaching more, so we’re in the throes of it right now, but it’s really exciting.

Yeah.

So when you start, do you see yourself like, David’s going to be the preacher, you’re going to be the singer or worship leader. Of course, you have a sister I’ve never met, but Frank tells me about her. She’s a dynamic worship leader, so you can do her. So where do you see you’re fitting in? Are you going to do some preaching? Mostly him preaching. What do you think?

I think there’s going to be a bit of a team approach, which is semi new to churches, but my dad on average preaches about 50% of the time anyways, and so we’ve kind of already developed a team approach when it comes to the speaking. So David will probably speak about twice a month now. We’re obviously going to feel that out and then I’m going to fill in the gaps, but we have a good amount of it’s.

Kathy’s phone. Keep going.

Oh, no, you’re good. I heard that. I didn’t know it was my phone. We have a good amount of feeders that we’re going to keep on giving them room to grow and whatnot in the team approach. But I mean, David is definitely going to be he’s got such a gift to speak and is predominantly going to be leading the charge with that. And then I’m going to be sitting in. I’m actually not going to be singing at this point.

Oh, bye. Cathy. Sorry, it froze.

I didn’t actually are you leaving, Kathy, or are you coming back?

I’m sorry.

I have a very important appointment.

I love Pastor Kathy.

I’m sorry. I love you too, Catherine. And I hope that you can come back to our church know, and just give us one more shot of Catherine Mullins.

Of course, we can pull her away.

From leading us into the presence of the Lord with who you are.

Hi, everybody.

Okay, well, it’s our first time and second time of having her on, and now she’s deserted us. So what a bad idea. Mustn’t have been a bad idea because she’s gone. But anyway, so it’s really exciting to me to see you do this and the challenges of taking over the reins of the church and I know there’ll be some transition in there. And of course, being me being a dad and grandpa and all that stuff. And seeing I’m raising up people, that we got a lot of great preachers in our church and staff preachers. So someday that’s going to be me.

I’m going to do that. Ease out of it a little bit more. I thought I was by the way, when the pandemic hit, that this is a great time, I started raising up. But after it was over, I found out that I was more needed than ever because they needed me to step in. Well, not just them, but people needed a more fatherly figure. So they hear the other guys preach, they’re great and everybody’s great, but every once in a while when I come in, it makes them just I think it just settles them down a little bit.

So I step back in and I’m stepping out back in. I’m writing two books at the same time now because I didn’t write any, I didn’t do any. So now I’m gotten two going at the same time and so I’m stepping back in. But I’m also like your dad. I’m more apostolic than I am local now, and so that’s where I need to be leaning into. And I understand know. So let’s talk a minute about since Kathy’s gone, we got a few more minutes together.

So I was hurrying for her sake. Let’s talk about just overall, any thoughts you have of where the church is right now or churches. Naturally, we are associated with the same kind of churches, so we have that we’re not in the traditional church or we’re not in the church that’s ordaining certain people that we wouldn’t ordain or things like that. But what do you see? I don’t know. I’ll just leave it to you. I don’t want to over ask it. What do you see or feel in the churches that you go to or the atmosphere of churches even you don’t go to?

Yeah, I think overarchingly and this goes back to COVID, and I think most would agree that COVID was an invitation for a reset overarchingly in the church and a needed reset. And so a lot of people were questioning motives, light shows, what the point of local church and have we strayed from the foundational makeup of the local church that’s needed? And I think some people got to a point of having a self examination of their church and they said, yeah, we need to get back to some of the basics of Christianity, preaching the gospel, the presence of the Lord, the fire of God, revival, all those things.

And I think some people responded in repentance and started making some trajectory shifts that were needed. And I think some churches did not. I think they just kept going like normal. And so I think it’s been hard for some churches because again, I think it was a spiritual invitation for us to make the things that are important again the focus of the local church and at least the streams that I’ve been a part of. It’s been a really amazing journey to be a part of. And see every year that they’re hearing from the Lord and their churches are growing and there’s a fresh wind of the Spirit happening.

And so at least the churches that we’re going know, I think overall we could say, man, the church is in an uproar and this is happening and Mediocrity is here, but there is solidly, a remnant still in America. That is non negotiably in pursuit of the presence of Jesus, that they’re recognizing the need to capture this next generation and capture the heart of this next generation with truth. And so I would say we’re at a very potentially intense time in history, but that also is the breeding ground of revival.

And so I’m very hopeful with what I’m seeing as well.

Yeah, through the pandemic and then it came out of it and we were kind of shocked when well, we we were fortunate enough we couldn’t have church congregation and we did online just and that was it. And then other churches, they couldn’t meet and we had kind of a funny thing happen because some people didn’t want us to meet and we were doing certain things and having people up on stage and somebody reported us because they wanted to oh, they’re not doing it right, so we got reported. So then they showed up and asked us questions and things like that.

But the beautiful thing about it was when they got done with us, the people that were trying to cause us trouble, when they got done with us, actually they gave us a special invitation that we could go ahead and not wear masks and have church. But all over the other city, like if you went to the Royals game or whatever, our baseball team, you all had to wear masks when that was still on and we did not. And we got to meet months ahead of everybody else.

So then when we did that, we found out that people who had been staying home and watching our broadcast or somebody else’s maybe in their robes and pajamas and eating breakfast while church is going on. A lot of them didn’t come back. They got settled into that. And you try like, what happened, where did they go and what are they thinking? And so we made a push and a lot of them, they didn’t exist anymore. And that’s in the point we had to decide to move on. And we’ve been really surprised of the number of people because we’re growing now back and the number of people that are unfamiliar with church or not very much church, and how hungry they come in and how easy the newer ones, how they settle in to at one time, we would think our church is pretty passionate. You’ve been there. Well, you are too.

They’re going to be able to adjust and it’s been an easy adjustment for the new ones, pretty much just accepting it. There’s always those that not so we’re growing with brand new faces is what I’m trying to say, that maybe would never have gone to church before. And I think we’re going to see more of that and we got to focus on those instead of the ones we lost at every church. You want to get them back, but there’s a new crop of people coming that unchurched or barely churched that we’re finding.

I love that one. I think, too, it was a season of weeding out that the Lord did and really testing heart motives and where people were at. And we found out that the seed fell on rocky soil and we maybe didn’t realize it was rocky soil, but I think exactly what you said. There has been a group of people who have boldly spoken truth and boldly held to the convictions of the Bible, and the Lord is honoring that with growth. And so that’s exactly what it might be, different people.

But I think that’s an amazing testimony that basically the unchurched are now being churched in a fresh way as a response to everything that’s happened.

And we meet occasionally people who years ago they came to the Smithson Outpouring or they’re at Pensacola or Lakeland or something, or the Kansas City in 2008 when we were on Day Star. And now their kids are showing up and they say, yeah, my parents brought me, or my parents saw you then. And I’m thinking, great, where’s your parents now? I don’t know what happens there. But their kids, I’ve seen a lot of their kids have shown up and said and the amazing thing is some of them didn’t know we were the church they went to with their parents when they were kids. And then they go, oh, I remember you when I was a kid.

So there’s that group, too, the kids of the parents. We may not know where the parents are, but a lot of the kids are coming alive today too.

Yes, because we see all these crazy stories of people leaving the church, but the people that are getting planted and the people that are hungry for church and hungry for a real relationship with God. There is a generation that is still sick of the fake and they’re ready for the real. And they’re looking for churches again that are speaking out truth and speaking out the gospel message that’s you guys yeah.

I might put you on the spot with this question. I’m interested to know, I maybe should ask you when we’re not doing the podcast, but okay, so this last year in the spring, as you know, then at Asbury and a few other campuses had somewhat of a move of God and it was a different kind than we’re used to. You’re lively, we’re lively. And I would hear reports of it. I actually was going to send Zion who’s right over there.

I was going to send him, and the week that we were going to send him, that’s when they decided visitors are no longer going to attend, they’re going to go somewhere else and only the members and students are going to attend. So he didn’t go, but all I heard was, oh, it’s so fantastic. There’s no leadership and everybody just flows and they sing acapella and they do all that. And so the pressure, I don’t maybe with you, but I would get pressured by some who say, well, that’s what God’s doing now. That’s what God’s doing now and wanting to go that direction.

And some of our students, we let them do whatever they wanted is reflected in that. But we didn’t go that way because my voice said, I’ve seen Asbury before, read their history, and a few weeks revival is a great thing. And then news media got it and all that, and it was a really great thing. But I said, where is it going to be later? And right now, where is it? So we’re back to where we were. So I just wanted your thoughts on what was called revival. And it was good.

I’m glad it happened. It brought the word revival back into our vocabulary. You want to hit that screen again for me, it brought the word revival back into our vocabulary. But what did you think about that? And did you change anything? Did you think about it? Just keep going.

Great question. So I agree with you. It brought the word back, revival. And I’m all for celebrating a move of God, period. And I think people like you, other mature leaders, they’re so excited, thank God that a generation had this experience for however long in a revival way with the presence of God. So I’m like, thank God they’re on their faces singing, worshipping all the things instead of outside partying, doing all crazy things. So that was a big win. Any move of God is a win in that sense.

But there was definitely a feeling, and I hate this when people do this. And I don’t think they mean to. They’re like, it was so refreshing this didn’t happen, and it was so different. And again, like you said, no leadership. And this, that’s great, that that fits. And that wineskin worked for them, wonderful, praise God. But we’ve got to stop pitting different expressions in the body of Christ against each other. Like, well, this is the only way to do it. And so this way is wrong. And I think God is into diversity. So that means moves of God are going to look different, different places, and we need to celebrate that. And so I definitely was around some leaders, and I’m not going to say their names, but they were feeling the pressure of we need to do this and we need to do that. And finally, one leader just said, we have our mandate and our blueprints for what God’s called us to do, so we’re going to keep doing that. And I think that’s it. You just have to be faithful with what God’s told you to do, and it’s going to look different in different places. And so I think it’s like, celebrate the move of God. I was so happy it happened, praise the Lord, but I’m going to keep doing what God called me to do, and I’m going to stay in my lane with that.

And I’m great with different moves of God looking different.

Yeah. And you look back in history, no matter how anything start out, god always picks a leader. I tried to explain to him, I said, Just look at the children of Israel. So it says, God heard the cry of the people.

Yes.

And then he picked a leader named Moses to lead. And so that’s the pattern. So even if we start out no leader, you can’t maintain without just everybody contributing. And just know young ones and certain ones they don’t get.

Yeah. They had leadership there in the background.

Yeah. And you and I would pick up on that.

Yes.

Average people thought it was just complete spontaneous. It was nothing.

No, there were definitely leaders still calling the shots behind that godlike leadership, for sure.

Yeah. And that’s the leaders made the decision to move the visitors someplace else.

Exactly.

And I guess then it stopped. I guess they’re not there now. I don’t know. I haven’t kept up with it, but it was good. I was glad to see it because it brought the word revival forward, and now, obviously, I think we’re ready for something else. Don’t know what the something else is. Our church, we’re trying to prepare if god allows us to hit that level that we had before. I did notice you’ll probably agree with this because you’ve been a lot of places and around revival, I try to explain to them the difference between good moves of God that are the rumblings of revival and. The moves of God, which we had, where people would just get on the property and they couldn’t hardly stand it’s. Just a presence just came over you like a net.

When people, they felt the presence, they were changed. Just walking in the room, healed, just walking in the room. And he tried to explain that to some people that didn’t feel it or know it, others that did understand it. But there’s a way more advanced, I think, that’s coming greater than that. It was just a great beginning.

Yeah. And I think that’s, again, we celebrate what God did, but we don’t get stuck in a box of trying to replicate it and we just keep pressing in for what God wanted to do, because I agreed. I mean, that was just the tip of the iceberg of what God wants to do in our nation. And it was an amazing moment. I’m, like, praise God for that. Again, I mean, how can you get mad at students pursuing Jesus and repenting? It’s wonderful. Holiness unto the Lord, I think was like a big theme, which is, The Lord knows we need that in our culture today.

And it’s just again, it’s really a spirit of comparison where we feel the need to compare ourselves with what we’re doing versus what they’re doing and then change almost the word of God that he’s told us. It was a very firm word that this one leader said they’re a prominent leader, and they just said, we have our blueprints and we’re doing what we’re called to do and just keep moving forward. We want our move of God.

Right. I want to ask you one other question, at least. I think it’s kind of a hard question, so I’ll see where you go.

With it, all the hard questions.

Yeah, maybe you’ll skirt it.

Maybe you’ll answer back to you when.

We first met you and you came to our church and we’re a lively church and you worshipped and we responded, and people jump and they do all that stuff that we still do. But since then, when we first met you, through the years, you’ve noticed that other churches that are even Baptists evangelicals that weren’t in that realm before, now they have great bands, great music, they write songs and they jump up and down.

They’ve advanced in their worship. But I don’t know what you think about the level of what I know. They do better with the faster songs, I’ve noticed. When it gets to real worship, deep worship, I kind of watch and see if they know what to do or what. But that’s a good sign too. But it also can be a replacement for a real move of God because people think we already have it or what. I don’t put words in your mouth. What do you think?

Well, one, you coined the phrase useless fires. I try to give you credit wherever I can. Sometimes I slip it out of my mouth. I always say, my dear friend Pastor Grace calls it useless fires. And it’s exactly what you said, fires that burn bright, but they don’t burn away sin. And I think, unfortunately, that’s where a lot of churches are at right now. We’re experiencing a clash. This is just my personal opinion.

There has been a lot of mixture in the church for a long time. We all can kind of, for the most part, agree to that, that there’s been some hidden sins that the Lord’s been really revealing in these last few years in an unprecedented rate. And so what I think kind of happened is the church for a long time has been in a grace period when it comes to the Holy Spirit moving in our services. But there’s a reality that he’s left the building.

He’s withdrawn from a lot of churches. And so if you talk to people, they’re like, I don’t feel anything anymore. They don’t feel anything because the Lord’s not moving. So we have to ask the question why. I think what’s happened is that because the Holy Spirit is no longer moving in our services, we’ve had to become really creative. And that fire of creativity has fanned to know we’re some of the most creative we’ve been in years, or the most excellent we’ve been because of stems and different resources that we have. So the church is excellent in music, but excellence in creativity was always meant to partner with the power of the Holy Spirit.

And so we’re exactly. In a time, I feel like, because we’ve refused to handle the mixture in our churches, we’ve refused to maintain a degree of holiness that we were created for, the Holy Spirit has withdrawn, and a lot of churches are having to fan into flame those creative fires. And it’s like a you two concert not as good. So people have the emotional experience exactly what you talk about, but they leave with their chains intact.

Yeah, exactly. You can have this phrase, too, if you want. I preached a sermon, and once in a while I’ll bring out the phrase, stirred but not changed.

That’s it. I’m going to write that down right now. Everybody write that down. It’s good.

Stirred but not changed. And stirring is good. Stirred, but the transformation, do they still go back to the Depression or the suicide thoughts? Because they have a lot they don’t feel good about themselves. It’s kind of like a concert, and it’s a lift. It’s good, and I’m glad, but I don’t want it to substitute for the real thing, which I hope that they’ll be hungry for, because the feeling when God moves, you always have that crowd that’s been there, done that, or we have it great at our church.

Okay, but try to explain the difference. So I’m really hoping we have an explosion of this, but I get a lot of prophecies are going forth now about revival I pick them up, people send them to me sometimes and they’re fantastic. Big prophecies about world revival in the nations and all that stuff. And I’m listening while the guy’s prophesying. I said, yeah, but your prophesying is going to happen, but what are you going to do? Why don’t you become it?

You’re not saying you’re going to do anything different. If I had that vision that you had, I’d be doing something different besides saying revival is coming. I would be revival. Or I’d fire up and say I’d become apostolic. So they tell it, oh, it’s coming, but they’re not going to make it happen.

Well, I think that’s why we need voices like you stepping into your Apostolic role. Because the next generation needs leadership and we need accountability. We just need fathering. And that’s what fathers do, is they lead, they guide, they hold us accountable, encourage all the things. But you know the waters of revival and we need people who have waited in the waters of revival to pour out to this next generation and give guidance.

I love your perspective every time I leave, encouraged just from our conversations, just because, you know, and you sacrifice your life to get to the point that you are, you’ve sacrificed to know. I’m just thankful for that and your voice.

Well, thanks, I appreciate that. Like I said, I’m trying to write a new book that we get out quick. It’s going to be a self published book because I want to get it out quick and it’s the most revealing, I think. Then there are other books going to be published by somebody, but it’s good too. It’s about revival. River of Revival. But it’s called the Revival Test. So it’s going to be a good one. My son in law JD is writing it with me. He’s a great writer too, so we’re doing it together. But this new one I’ll have to send you, it’s going to be short.

I’m on fifth chapter. I want to go seven and keep it short. So I’m really expecting great things and of course fantastic for you to entering into the real pastoring thing, that whatever happens there, you’re going to get to carry it. And that’s the best of all is when the local congregation and the local pastor them, if it’s in them, even if they have guest speakers, because you’re a guest. Sometimes I’ve been a guest.

I don’t want to be against guest speakers or guest singers, but there has to be people that are not coming for the guests, but they’re coming for the Lord. And it has to be a group. So I like that. I’m so glad we could have this talk together and you’re doing well. I’m excited to get you into next know, I think about that because I know what that’s like to start out at that and consider you really close to us and Uncle Frank for you and know one of my best friends, always has been, for years and years, and that keeps us family, so the best for you. And we’re always here. I always tell you, we’re always here for you. And then I think, well, you got a church too. They’re pretty good, so I’m sure I’m.

Going to be calling you. I’ve already told my husband, Dave, I was like, we just need to call Pastor Steve and get all his information.

I have a lot right now. I have a lot because I backed away, but when I stepped back into it again, a lot of revelation, a lot of thoughts about what’s going on in the country today and what needs to take place. So that’s where I’m at now. So anyway, well, we’re always here for you. You have a great ministry. We’ll have to have you come back. I don’t know, through the pandemic, we sort of forgot what to do.

We’re planning the future and things are going well here, and I’m glad they’re going well for you. So thank you for taking the time to do this. You’re going to bless everybody. Great insights from you. And so till next time, bye.

We love you guys. Bye.