Good Church or God Church?

0:00:00 – (Steve Gray): Hey, people tell me they go to a good church, but is it a God church? How do you recognize whether your church or another or a ministry is a true work of God? I’m going to give you five things in the next More Faith, More Life podcast so you’ll know you were made for more than the status quo.

0:00:18 – (Steve Gray): I’m Pastor Steve Gray and this is the More Faith, More Life podcast. This podcast is for Christians with an ambitious heart who want to be more for their family, do more with their career, and see more of God’s promises in their life. I’ve spent many years as a worship artist, minister, non-profit leader, bold truth speaker, and most importantly, father and spouse. When I was in my early 40s, I was craving more.

0:00:43 – (Steve Gray): More from God and more from life. I’d done everything I was supposed to do. My life was good, but it wasn’t good enough. So I spent the following years diving into the word of God and searching for the biblical principles that would bring me closer to God and help my purpose and life flourish. That’s what I want to share with you. In every episode, you’ll get practical tools based on real life experiences that you can put into action to redefine your faith and ultimately your life.

0:01:15 – (Steve Gray): So if you’re ready to do more, subscribe to More Faith, More Life and hear an unfiltered biblical truth every week. It’s time to be and experience more.

0:01:27 – (Steve Gray): Hello everyone and welcome to another More Faith, More Life podcast, your voice of revival. We’ll be talking about the things a little bit about revival here. We see the word revival and revive a lot today that we didn’t hear before. We can even see it on television now. News people and, and people talk about, you know, that they pray and it’s really a new day in, in that we also of course have evil things happening that are also, you know, got an upswing and evil’s trying to move as fast as the Holy Spirit’s moving and we see a lot of good things. I’d like to see more happen in churches. I see it happening on campuses and gatherings and worship things and worship nights and that’s good. All that’s good, good stuff. But I’d like to see a little more in churches and have these people that are feeling the things of the Spirit of God to get in the local churches. That’s kind of my heart, I guess.

0:02:24 – (Steve Gray): Maybe it’s just me. Maybe it’s more where God’s placed my heart that I like to know that the local churches are having spiritual activity they’re having an upswing. They’re having revival. If there’s going to be a revival, I would prefer it to be in a local church and local churches, but that’s just me. Some people would be satisfied if it’d be down at the Coliseum, down at the big hall or whatever where they have big concerts and famous people come or in a stad or like that.

0:02:54 – (Steve Gray): But if you’re going to have it ongoing, if you’re going to have an upswing of the Holy Spirit, the presence of God is greater than it was before, then you really need to have it in the local church where people come on a regular basis to experience the presence of God, the things of God, the glory of God. And so I want to talk about that a little bit because how do you know. And a lot of you, you know, obviously don’t go to our church.

0:03:21 – (Steve Gray): Different places around the country. How do you recognize a true work of God? And I may. Maybe I’ve jumped ahead here. And I’m not the. You know, who am I to be able to say what I think a work of God is? But I tried to go to the scriptures, to the Bible, and help you look at your own church or other churches. Because all I’m saying is I think we need a move of God in the local churches. That’s what we need. Or a church where other churches can come together to that church, that would be okay too.

0:03:52 – (Steve Gray): But as long this is me, as long as it’s outside of the church, we not quite landed in true revival or a true move of God. Because the church is the institution that God created, that Jesus created. And of course, he said, the gates of hell will not prevail against the church, his church, right? And, you know, I like the story when Jesus was a boy, he was 12, remember? And they. And they’re in Jerusalem and they’re in town and they can’t. They can’t find him for several days. They don’t know where he is, you know, and they’re looking for him. And probably worried parents, like all parents would be.

0:04:29 – (Steve Gray): And then they finally find him in the temple. And maybe, maybe it’s a hard crossover for you to think, okay, Jewish temple, local church. But it’s not hard for me because they said, where were you? And we found you. And he said, you know, where did you think I would be? Where did you think I would be? Where do you think you would find me? You’d find me in the temple. And so I like that. Showing the focus that he had, you know, on the temple. Of God at that time.

0:05:00 – (Steve Gray): And so my goal and dream prayer is that local churches would begin to experience the things of God in a greater degree. If it’s happening, happening somewhere else, then that means it can happen in your church. But you have to know how to get there. And what do you look for and how do you recognize if the church, even the church you attend is really doing a true work of God and not a work of man? All right, so I picked out five things here I just want to talk about real quick. And the first thing that I picked out was conviction.

0:05:30 – (Steve Gray): Is there conviction like when the songs or the people share or the preaching of the word? And. And there’s just that conviction. Because you know what conviction is? Conviction is the work of the Holy Spirit. That means the Holy Spirit is working, right? Cause the Bible says he will convict the world of sin.

0:05:48 – (Steve Gray): Okay?

0:05:48 – (Steve Gray): So he convicts people, not condemnation. He doesn’t condemn. But there’s conviction. And it’s always like, conviction comes and you think, I can do better, I can serve more, I can give more, I can be more. So it’s not conviction of I’m a bad person, I’m convicted that I’m so stupid that I do such dumb things. I’m convicted that I watch the wrong things on television, right? Maybe that happens and that’s a good thing. But flip it, it’s the other way around.

0:06:18 – (Steve Gray): It’s not. I’m convicted because I watch things on TV I shouldn’t watch. No, you get convicted saying, I can be more than that. I can be more than just somebody that watches junk on television or on my phone. God’s convicting me that I can be more than that. You understand the difference between being convicted that I’m a bad person, as opposed being convicted that you can be more of a person for God. And God convicts us that you can be more, you can do more, you can say more, you can give more. There’s more of you to go around in my kingdom.

0:06:52 – (Steve Gray): And so the Holy Spirit convicts us of that and convicts us of the. Does convict us of our sin too, is where we start. That we’re living a life that’s sinful, obviously convicts us that. But what about conviction after we come to church? What should we look for? So I’m saying there needs to be conviction in the church, to the church, folks, because that will be. I’m convicting you of a lifestyle that’s less.

0:07:20 – (Steve Gray): And when you think of sin, I don’t know what you think of, but a good definition that’s been around for years is missing the mark. It doesn’t mean you’re immoral. Doesn’t mean you’re doing some immoral sin or anything like that. It could be that, but it means it’s missing the mark. You’re convicted of missing the mark for your life, and you’re living in sin, or you’re living less, you’re living lower, whatever it is. Okay, so anyway, so the Bible says godly sorrow, conviction, you see, you have godly sorrow leads to repentance.

0:07:53 – (Steve Gray): And so anyway, is there. I have to keep moving. Is there conviction during songs, music, sermons, like, they, like, feel the Holy Spirit pulling on you out of sin, out of weakness, out of stupidity, into a higher walk with him. The next thing I put down is, is there true humility? Now, that might seem strange because especially if I’m talking about local churches. Cause local churches are pretty good at sounding humble. You know, people don’t come in and just spout off prideful things like that.

0:08:27 – (Steve Gray): They look pretty humble. We know how to act in church, we know how to preach in church, we know how to share in church is pretty humble. But two places you check it. One thing is when you have a guest speaker, you have a guest. Then is there humility? I listened to one guy and he was sharing how expensive his shoes were over and over. And they were very expensive shoes. And he said that. And then another. I was in another, I was in California and another guest speaker.

0:08:57 – (Steve Gray): And. And he got up and, you know, talked about his airplane and his jet and how it’s. How much in this. And, you know, and, you know, I don’t know what the purpose of that is, because are we trying to. Like, if I get up and I say, I want to encourage you because I am debt free, okay, that’s a good testimony. Because a lot of people would like to be debt free. I didn’t get it overnight. I worked at it. But I’m debt free, okay?

0:09:24 – (Steve Gray): So if I get up and I say, I just want to share with you how good God is, I’m debt free, okay? So why am I saying that to you? Because I’m hoping to you say, huh, I want to be debt free too. And now I know it’s possible, okay, but if I get up and share about my jet, then what am I sharing? Why am I telling you that? So you’ll go buy a jet. Cause you’re going to go buy an airplane. You see? So that. And then the other place you look for humility is when you get outside the church service and you’re on a committee or sharing, or you’re organizing or you’re in the choir and you’re at choir practice or whatever, worship team practice and whatever, and you’re working on songs.

0:10:02 – (Steve Gray): And is there a spirit. Is there a spirit of humility that we work towards? So that’s another thing. Is there hum. Because the Bible says God opposes the proud. God opposes the proud. We have to be humble to walk with God. We have to be. And Jesus chose to be humble. He chose it. He purposely walked in humility, though he was God. All right? And so we need to choose, say I got to choose humility and understand when that pride rises up within us, that we need to put it back down.

0:10:35 – (Steve Gray): Because God opposes the proud, but gives more grace, more grace to the humble. All right. The third thing I put down was, first of all, I put down hunger for God. And then I changed it because I remembered a person could go hungry a lot longer than they can thirsty. You have to have water. So I put it the short form, the thirsty. There’s a lot in the Bible about being thirsty for God, right? He has that living water will never thirst again, right?

0:11:07 – (Steve Gray): And the famous psalm that turned into a song, you know, as the deer pants for water. So my soul longs and pants. My insides are panting and thirsty. I’m thirsting for you, Lord. I have a thirst for God. So that’s what you need to look for, too. If you get in and you say, this is a good church, the music’s pretty good. People are friendly. They got a good program. Many times I hear, well, they really have a great children’s program.

0:11:32 – (Steve Gray): Okay, that’s all good. But is there a thirst for God? Because if there’s no thirst or no hunger for God, you’re going to start starving, you’re going to be in a famine, you’re going to be without water, you know, you’re going to be thirsty and dry, you know, like in the desert. You’re going to have desert Christianity if there’s no thirst there. And hunger. Cause if there’s thirst, then people are going to work to. I won’t give me that living water.

0:12:00 – (Steve Gray): I have to have that living water. These people are really thirsty for God. They really go after God, you know. So if it’s nominal and really calm and the music starts and half the people stand up and half sit down and, you know, and it’s just some sing, some don’t. Some raise their hands, some don’t. It’s just all personal preference, whatever makes them comfortable. But thirst is uncomfortable. Thirst is uncomfortable.

0:12:26 – (Steve Gray): Hunger’s Uncomfortable too, you know, that it’s uncomfortable to be hungry. You’re uncomfortable when you’re thirsty. And it drives you to be and to do and to go and to search and go. And so we want to have thirst in the church. People are really thirsty for God because we’re uncomfortable, uncomfortable when we’re thirsty. But we’re comfortable when we find the living water of God at the well of salvation.

0:12:50 – (Steve Gray): A river of life, you know, flowing out of me. And so is there, do you think that, you know, is there conviction in this place? You know, do people. Am I and they. And us being convicted to be more, to do more. Is there humility? Especially when you’re not in the service but you’re on a committee or in the choir practice or music practice or whatever, you know, is, you know, is there humility there? And is there a real hunger and thirst for God in this place?

0:13:18 – (Steve Gray): Because I don’t want to, I don’t want to run dry because it could be exciting at first. All the new friends, new places, you know, new faces, new people, it’s all fresh and new. You went to that church for a real long time and you’re used to it now. This is so fresh. But do you feel there’s a genuine thirst for God there? Okay, so anyway, so we have that one. Now I want to talk about the fourth one is devotion.

0:13:43 – (Steve Gray): And people that are devoted, really devoted to God are different. They’re different. They’re the ones that always do everything. They serve, they give, they share, they open their home. You know, they’re just, they don’t have devotion to other things. They’re devoted to God and single minded, single eyed, narrow. You know, talk about the narrow way. And I don’t know if you know what you have thought, what is the narrow way? But the narrow way is you just have single devotion. You don’t have this wide way. Of all these things going on in your life that are, you know, wide way or we.

0:14:26 – (Steve Gray): I like it. Sometimes there’s the narrow way and then there’s the broad way. And I always laugh. I grew up in a town where they had a Presbyterian. Well, now, I shouldn’t have said, oh, well, you don’t know where I grew up. So in a town where they had a Presbyterian church. And guess. And it was on the big street and guess what the name of it was. Broadway. Broadway Presbyterian Church. And I thought Broadway.

0:14:48 – (Steve Gray): I wouldn’t have named that, would you? Should be Narrow Way Presbyterian Church. Right. I actually went to a town, actually, this is true. I went to a town, and as I entered, I saw the sign and it said First Baptist Church. I went a little bit farther and the town was small. Like, it took a minute or two minutes, let’s say, just to drive through it. That’s how small it was, you know, on the highway.

0:15:14 – (Steve Gray): And I went a little bit further and it said Second Baptist Church. Okay, now this is a true story. And guys working here with me, I went farther and I’m about to leave town. And yes, it had the last Baptist church. That’s what they had, Last Baptist Church. I don’t know if they meant it was a joke or what, but they had three Baptist church anyway. So, you know, being totally devoted separates you from other people. Totally devoted.

0:15:40 – (Steve Gray): And Paul wrote one of my favorite scriptures. Paul wrote that he was concerned for the Corinthian Church, that just as Eve was deceived. So we have to put deception with devotion. Deception with devotion, okay? That just as Eve was deceived by the serpent, you too will be deceived from having a pure and sincere devotion to God. Sincere devotion. So he’s saying if you don’t have that devotion, then actually being deceived. Because, listen, he’s worth devoting yourself to. I mean, he’s everything.

0:16:17 – (Steve Gray): I mean, he’s not just your yesterday that he died on the cross for you yesterday or a long time ago. He’s not just your today trying to get you through the day. No, he is your future. This is your future. You’re dealing with your future. And that’s why being devoted is so important. And so we get deceived. That devotion is not important. We just pray the prayer. We’re glad we’re going to heaven when we die.

0:16:40 – (Steve Gray): We just try to be a nice person. And we basically serve ourselves. We’re devoted to ourselves in a nice way, right? And we want to get beyond that. We want to be more like the Bible people, where they were totally devoted to the Lord. Serve him with your whole heart. First Chronicles says, serve him with your whole heart. Whole heart. Completely love God with your heart, soul, mind and strength. All that you are, all that you have goes into this.

0:17:08 – (Steve Gray): And, you know, we forget that sometimes that that’s the kind of people we’re reading about in the Bible, in the New Testament, you know, and especially the Gospels. Those are the kinds of people that devoted themselves. And many of them died and gave their lives to. To be who. Because they were devoted. Because they were devoted. And, you know, Paul, he purposely goes to Rome and they’re going to. They cut his head off. They killed him. And what did he do?

0:17:37 – (Steve Gray): What did he do against the Roman Empire? Well, his devotion got him. Because in that day, you’re supposed to say, Caesar is God. Caesar is God. Caesar is Lord. Well, he’s running around preaching what Jesus is Lord. You know, Jesus is Lord. Well, if Jesus is Lord, that means Caesar is not Lord. So that’s what they caught him on. And actually, they kind of caught Jesus on that too. That he was going to tear down the temple in three days and that he was preaching another God, you know, that Jesus. God is God and one God and Caesar’s not Lord, all those kinds of things.

0:18:17 – (Steve Gray): And so they got him on insurrection. He’s a rebel against Rome. And that’s why Rome felt that they could legally put him to death. Because he’s a criminal against Rome by saying that he’s Lord. He’s the king of kings. They said, we can’t have that. We crucify people who say they’re the king. We crucify them. And so that got Paul, too. And it got a lot of the others too, because they got. It was sincere devotion. It was their devotion.

0:18:46 – (Steve Gray): That was the crime they committed. They were devoted to Jesus. And we don’t see that much today, do we? We don’t see people so. So devoted that they’re just over the top. I think we do. You agree with me about this? Whenever, if you see somebody over the top about anything, you kind of get nervous, right? And especially in church folks, if you see somebody that just seems to be over the top for Jesus, over the top for God, over the top for the kingdom of God, over the top for their church, it makes you nervous.

0:19:16 – (Steve Gray): Like, we want to have boundaries. Like we want to say to them, listen, this is good, but don’t go too far. You’re going too far. And you might know you’re never going to hear God say, you’re going too far. You went too far for me. You’ll never hear that. You’ll never hear Jesus say, now don’t go too far with this. You’ll never hear the Holy Spirit say, well, now, stay balanced. Stay balanced. And I’ve heard that many, many times. Stay balanced. Don’t go too far. Don’t get too excited.

0:19:46 – (Steve Gray): You know, a lot of people, when they say stay balanced, they mean balance between faith and unbelief, you know, and devotion and what they believe in. When I was just getting started, I was really excited about the Lord, you know, And I’m zeal and excited and all that. And I did. I had this old guy came up and I was all excited and he wasn’t. And he told me, well, you know, you’ll cool off, you’ll cool off.

0:20:09 – (Steve Gray): And I kind of took it as a challenge. I don’t think I will. Just, he’s long been gone off the earth, but he’s still making me mad. I’m still going, no, I’m not going to cool off. Okay. But anyway, so devotion, sincere devotion. And if you don’t have devotion, think of it, it could be that it’s deception is why you don’t have devotion. There’s something you’re not seeing, there’s something you’re not understanding. If you understood, if you saw it, if you knew it, you’d devote yourself to it. But you’re missing something.

0:20:39 – (Steve Gray): So therefore your devotion goes to other things or no place at all. The last one I have is, do they really preach the word of God? Do we recognize a true work of God? Do they really preach, teach the word of God? And right now there was a scripture that says there’s a famine in the land for the word of God. And I would say that’s probably true today. Not for sermons. We got plenty of sermons. But they’re based on the word of God. Many of them are based on it or they start on it. But to actually preach the word of God as it is and as it was in context to how it was written and who it was written to, and then apply it, are we getting the context of what is the word of God really saying to us?

0:21:24 – (Steve Gray): Okay, Is it really trying to get us like Paul wrote, forgetting what is behind and moving forward? I forget what’s behind and I go forward. Well, we take that and we preach it. Okay, now let your sorrows go. Let your past go. Let your past and all the things that have hurt you, let it go. Well, that’s totally out of context. Paul was saying what he had to let go was his old time religion, his religion. The way he grew up was standing in the way of his sincere devotion and his ministry to Jesus and to the body of Christ. And he said, I had to let all those, all that religious stuff. So how many times, I wonder how many times I’ve heard say, well, I didn’t grow up that way. They come to our church and people are singing with zeal and loud and raising their hands and stuff. And they look, well, what’s wrong with you? Well, I didn’t grow up that way.

0:22:16 – (Steve Gray): Well, you need to leave your past behind, which is what Paul Meant, okay, so we take scriptures and make them say what we want em to say. We want em to analyze us, help us understand why do I feel the way I feel, why do I do the way I do? How can I become a better person? And we need to be transformed by the renewing of our mind, not just feeling better about ourselves, by our minds being renewed. So instead of feeling better, we, we need to be transformed, we need to be changed. Right? And we need the word of God preached to us as the word of God, not take it and then apply it to psychoanalysis or apply it to behavior, you know, behavior, methods, behavior, modes, I should say.

0:22:58 – (Steve Gray): And taking out of that and applying it now to what’s meant. Okay, I want to hear you preach about me. Why I feel, why I’m hurt. How can I not get hurt anymore? How can I feel better? And, and then I go away and I accept myself better rather than be changed. And that’s when, okay, I feel better about myself. I feel better after that sermon. I sure feel better about myself. Well, that’s not what the purpose of the Word of God is.

0:23:25 – (Steve Gray): The word of God is to change you, transform you, give you the boundaries of how God thinks, who God is, how God thinks, and how you can better serve him. So, okay, so we looked at these five things. How to recognize a true work of God. Is there conviction? Are you convicted? Is there just that move forward, you can move forward. Is there humility in the house? Is there a hunger or. We mostly talked about a thirst. Are there people, the people on the platform, the stage, the pulpit, is this a person? I’m listening to them speak to me from the pulpit.

0:24:01 – (Steve Gray): Do I get the idea that they are really thirsty and hungry for God? Is there true devotion? Are these really devoted people or are they just mixed? They’re just church attenders and church is just on schedule. Okay, Sunday we go to church, Monday we go to soccer, Tuesday, I don’t know, eat tacos or whatever. And it’s just scheduled in. Or is there true devotion? This is who I am, this is what I do. And the last, of course, was the true preaching of the Word of God from the Word of God, from the Bible. You’re actually having the Bible taught to you and preached to you. These are the five things I picked out to recognize a true work of God.

0:24:37 – (Steve Gray): And so, I don’t know, I just felt like doing that today. Usually I talk about other things, you know, in Bible and we talk about revival, but this is revival. If these things get going in a church—conviction, humility, thirst, devotion, and preaching of the word of God, . That’s the starting of revival. So I hope this is helpful. You can look at your church or wherever you grew up or whatever and kind of analyze it a little bit. Is where I’m going now, a true work of God?  So I hope this is helpful as you look at the churches and what’s going on today. Till next time, bye-bye.